On an international stage, where does the U.S. rank in the following team sports

This was inspired by the US soccer thread. Interesting to hear anyone else's thoughts, including Canadians. I think the perception is growing out there that we simply can't put together good "teams" anymore. We're too self-centered or individually focused, I guess. Maybe even too selfish. It's the reason why we still dominate at things like track and field, swimming, women's figure skating, ect., but struggle lately in the big team sports, such as...

Baseball: Obviously, you can make the case by watching the WBC this year that we're not the best in the world, and we might not be in the top three. But I still think so much of that has to do with the format. Take away the "missing spring training" bullshit and I think the only team that can make the case that it's better is the Dominican Republic. Japan is obviously good, and so is Venezuela, but look at our potential roster over the next 10 years. We've got some really good, young pitching, easily the best depth in the world (Oswalt, Peavy, Papplebon, Beckett, Willis, Verlander, Bonderman, Hamels, Kazmir, Webb), one of the world's best catchers (Mauer), and some solid young position players (David Wright, Michael Young, Chase Utley, Vernon Wells, Eric Chavez, Ryan Howard, Brian Roberts, Grady Sizemore, Nick Swisher.) Throw in some vets like A-Rod, Roy Halladay, Zito, Rolen, Adam Dunn, possibly Jeter or Nomar Garciaparra, mix in some unproven prospects that will probably blossom before the next WBC (Jon Lester, Brandon Wood, Jered Weaver, Howie Kendrick, Daric Barton, ect.) then have someone like Varitek coach them after he retires, and we're still the best team in the world, period. If the WBC turned into an event like the World Cup in soccer, and players were passionate about participating, we'd be the team to beat, without question. I think our lack of team chemistry isn't as big of a factor in baseball because it's a team sport based on individual battles.

Basketball The more we continue to pretend that we're the most talented team in the world, and that's all that matters, the farther behind we're going to fall. The bronze at the last Olympics was embarrassing, obviously, but at least this time around we'll have Kobe Bryant, and we'll have a coach who (hopefully) won't be stupid and arrogant enough to sit Wade and LeBron, who are probably our two best players. I don't think Coach K was the best pick to coach the squad (that would be Mike D'Antoni, whose style best fits the international game) but at least Krzyzejewski knows how good Chris Paul is, and probably won't hesitate to start him in front of our usually shithead, shoot-first point guards. (I'm convinced that we should have asked John Stockton to come out of retirement for the last Olympics. That kind of thing happens in other sports. Even at 45 years old, he'd have been a better choice than Coney Island's finest.) The problem is, we're still not going to win if we can't shoot and can't play like a team unless we run all the time. I'd say the chances of us winning a gold medal in Beijing are 50-50 at best. Something will happen to screw shit up yet again.

Hockey Let's be frank for a moment. I don't know a ton about hockey, but I do know that USA Hockey is in a world of hurt. Our best players right now are old and getting older, and our younger guys will have almost no Olympic experience in Vancouver. I know that the national team did well at the World Championships in Latvia, beating the Czechs, and that the 2004 junior team won the world championship, but I'm not sure that means a lot, considering all the good, young international players are already playing in the NHL. I think the silver medal we won in Salt Lake City may have been the last serious gasp of the U.S. as a hockey power. The Candians, the Russians, the Swedes, the Czechs, the Fins (and I guess the Slovakians, since they punked us in Turin) are probably all better than we are, and I'm not sure that's going to change anytime soon. But at least now Mike Modano knows he should make his own hotel reservations if he ever makes another Olympic team.

Soccer This has been hashed out far better than I ever could on the "Asses the US soccer situation" thread. I will say that I think we're getting better, despite this year's results, but that we will be a major force in World Cup play within the next 20 years. There are simply too many people in this country, many of whom are moving to the United States at a rapid pace from places where soccer is popular, and eventually their kids will grow up and bring the game to the playgrounds. (Onyewu is one example of that.) But it's going to take time. I think someone like Freddy Adu is way more hype than substance (despite the fact that Pele was tiny, I'm still not convinced that a 5-foot-6 shrimp like Adu can be a star, no matter how good his ball skills are, but that probably shows how ignorant I am about soccer) but we do have some strong younger players who are flying under the radar like Johnson, Beasley, Covney and Onyewu. Watching Ghana play the last week and a half, it's a damn shame that Michael Essien's parents didn't win the immigration lottery like Adu's when he was 8. Can we start fixing African, Mexican and South American immigration lotteries to improve our soccer team? The CIA has to be good for something.


Interested to hear anyone else's thoughts.

 

Re: On an international stage, where does the U.S. rank in the following team sp

I think that is the "Romp in the hay" boots thread.

 

In baseball the US, regardless of the WBC finish, is in the top two or three with the DR and Japan in both team play and the DR, Venezuela and, maybe, Cuba in talent level.

In basketball we're probably top 5 in terms of team play, in terms of overall talent we're probably No. 1.

In hockey we're one of the Big 6 along with Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, the Czechs. As a team we're probably No. 6 but No. 7 is barely in our rearview mirror.

In soccer, well clearly the guy running the computer at the FIFA office is smoking some serious dope because we aren't close to being a top five team internationally.

 

Re: On an international stage, where does the U.S. rank in the following team sp

How did we do in the X-Games? ;D

 

Safe to say we still have football? ;D

 

Probably No. 1 in talent?
Was that just a slip? Please tell me that was just a slip.

 

Do you think we are do you think we aren't?

 

Baseball - Top three
Basketball - number one if you get your best players out like just about every other country get's their's, and really I don't think it's even all that close.
Hockey - obviously in the big six but in a transitional phase right now. Tons of young talent coming up through the ranks, I say your five years away from being a top two or three nation in the world, just have to let all that young talent mature. The graduationg junior team is arguably the most talented in the world, they were a flop at the latest World Juniors though because of team chemistry, but if those issues could have been worked out they would have won the tournament. Just let those guys mature and watch out they'll give any country a run for their money. It was smart of Team USA to play some of it's younger stars at the last Olys to start that maturation process now.
Soccer - couldn't tell you. All I know is Canada is constantly fightig to stay inthe top 100, so how bad could you guys be anyways?

 

If we're so much more ridiculously talented than the rest of the world, then why is our B team losing to Puerto Rico?

 

Because Puerto Rico is actually a pretty damn good team, despite a lack of NBA stars, and it depends on how your B team is being coached/utilized.

 

Goodness, in basketball talent the U.S. is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and probably 10.
The most talented country aside from the U.S. is what?
Argentina? Brazil? One of the Eastern European nations?
Is there another country that has even 10 NBA players?

 

Re: On an international stage, where does the U.S. rank in the following team sp

In basketball, we lose because we intentionally use a style of play designed to minimize/eliminate the role of raw talent, keeping games close and low-scoring.

This is partially due to the fact that when we DID send our very best players (1992) and they started playing even close to the level of their capabilities, and we started annihilating teams off the court by 40-60 points, the media (mainly the AMERICAN media, it should be noted) started screeching and caterwauling about the mean nasty ugly Americans running up the score.