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OK KCSJ and WWI buffs, kick the knowledge ...

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Bubbler, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    Passchendaele was particularly pointless. How's that for alliteration? Anyway, the Canadians finally won the coveted territory, a few miles worth of mud, whereupon the British brainiacs in charge of the whole mess put a skeleton force in charge of its defence and basically handed it right back to the Germans. Field Marshal Alexander Haig was responsible for hundreds of thousands of Allied casualties, at Passchendaele and elsewhere, and he should have been tried as a war criminal. Instead, he was rewarded with a peerage title - an earldom, I believe. Bastard.
     
  2. Birdscribe

    Birdscribe Active Member

    It was Douglas Haig, JJ -- and you couldn't be more right. The SOB not only was one of the worst generals in the history of warfare, but he had the audacity to order the trial and execution of dozens of soldiers for "cowardice." Trying him for war crimes would have been the sensible thing, but then again, -- from start to finish -- there was nothing sensible about this war.

    20th century weapons fought with 18th century tactics. Not a good combination in any war, let alone one that had no business being fought in the first place. Then again, you can make a great case that much of the 20th century came out of what happened from 1914-1918: Hitler, the rise of Communism, the disintegration of the old European monarchies and the United States ascension as the world's Swinging Dick for much of the rest of the century.

    And Bubbler, the Somme was an absolute abomination. Martin Gilbert's well-done book "The Battle of the Somme -- The Heroism and Horror of War" chronicles the entire battle, including the 1st Newfoundland Regiment, which lost 733 of 801 men on the first day of battle. That's a 91.5% casualty rate and a good reason why Canada Day has a different meaning in that province.

    After 4 1/2 months of battle, the Allies hadn't reached the line they set for themselves on the first day of battle.
     
  3. finishthehat

    finishthehat Active Member

    That's what makes WWI, to me, more fascinating than WWII -- it's stunningly tragic.

    Another aspect -- military units were still grouped by towns, so when one went through a horrific day at the Somme, say, just about everyone in that town was affected and got the news at the same time.
     
  4. Brooklyn Bridge

    Brooklyn Bridge Well-Known Member

    Lets not forget the break up of the Balkans and the divying up the spoils of war--Giving France and Britain control of African and Middle Eastern countries. Palestine, Transjordan and the League of Nations mandates that basically screwed the Arabs out of land. Foreign troops occupying Turkey (part of the Ottoman Empire) That's a battle we are still fighting a century later.

    Japan was also allowed to capture the Marshall Islands, Carolines and Marianas Island groups.
     
  5. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    Haig was among a parade of generals who were ineffective to incompetent on both sides. Joffre, Nivelle, von Moltke, Falkenhayn, Hotzendorf, etc.

    Even Ludendorff, who was effective through most of the war, became so megalomanical by the end as to be ineffective.
     
  6. doubledown68

    doubledown68 Active Member

    Next time Im back for a few days, I'll see it. Ashamed I haven't done so already.
     
  7. NoOneLikesUs

    NoOneLikesUs Active Member

    Reading Aftermath: The Remnants of War by Donovan Webster right now. The first 80 pages deal with the continuing work of government demolition crews in France whose job it is to remove the millions of shells still surfacing in the fields across the country.

    I think the book said at the current rate of removal - which destroys tons of shells every year - the job will be done in 700 years.
     
  8. Diabeetus

    Diabeetus Active Member

    Definitely worth your time. Block out a few hours.
     
  9. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    At least in WWI the battlefields, ammo dumps and training areas were well-defined and they know the general area where the unexploded bombs would be. Of course, places like Verdun have been swept and swept and swept to the nth degree, and stuff still turns up. Aerial warfare was still in its infancy and mostly air-to-air rather than air-to-ground.

    In WWII they're finding stuff almost every day: bombs, tank and artillery shells, grenades, mines, and in every imaginable place because of air warfare, German rocket technology and the mobile nature of the fighting. The failure rate of WWII ordnance is estimated at 30 percent. The good news is that "bomb-sniffing" technology has improved.

    http://maic.jmu.edu/journal/4.2/features/ww2/ww2.htm
     
  10. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    That'll teach me to post with my phone and no double-check for my memory - I got my warmongering Haigs mixed up. :)
     
  11. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    It's fascinating and appalling to realize that the whole damn thing could have been avoided if there had just been better familial relations between first cousins George V of England, William II of Germany and Nicholas II of Russia.

    It's true - George and William shared a grandmother in Queen Victoria, whose other grandchildren included Nicholas' wife, and Nicholas and George also shared a grandfather in Christian IX of Denmark.
     
  12. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    That was the problem. No Hatfields and McCoys among the royal ranks. They were all stinking Hatfields and the family tree didn't branch.
     
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