NBA Playoffs Thread

As someone who watches a ton of Cavs games, I'm convinced it's the Cavs who have gotten Mike Brown to the conference finals and not the other way around.

They have no semblance of a rotation.
They routinely squander leads coming out of halftime (such as the first two games of this series).
They are one of, if not THE worst teams in the league in scoring on possessions coming out of timeouts.

Mike Brown. Mike Brown. Mike Brown.

Sure, their defense has gotten a lot better, and they do a great job rebounding. But what the hell happened to their offense tonight in the second half? 26 points? How many times do they have to watch LeBron dribble out front, drive with the shot clock winding down and either force a shot or dump it off (frequently leading to turnovers) before they adjust? When you go six straight playoff games without sniffing 90 points, there's a problem.

Mike Brown is a very good assistant coach dressing in a head coach's suit.

 

I can understand the concern Tino, and you've watched them a lot more than I have, but he has led them to two 50 win seasons in two years and this year to the conference finals. He was thought of as a defensive specialist, and the team has improved at that end.

Now he needs to progress as a coach, either in this series or next year by creating a better offense for the team.

However, I don't think two seasons are enough to give a coach in his first head position a chance to become everything he could be.

 

Best damn thing I've heard in awhile. Not that I agree with it, but it's funny and timely:

"LeDirk James"

 

According to this, LeBron got a Flagrant-2 in Game 1 but wasn't suspended.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/17278878.htm

 

NO, you've made absurd assertions, talked completely out of your ass and now you are just showing your lunacy and total cluelessness. Again, his stats, which are pretty damn good by the way, don't tell even half the story because McHale played in the context of a great, great team. He didn't average 10 rebounds because he didn't need to -- he and Parish and Bird all rebounded.

And if you think George Gervin, Adrian Dantley, Michael Cooper, Mark Aguirre, Kiki Vandwhege, Dan Issel, a post-1980 Dr. J and Dan Issel -- hey at least your are good at reading the scoring leaders charts -- were better than Kevin McHale during his prime, then you just have no clue. That's just retarded.

And using your methodology -- stats -- He was a much better player than James Worthy, who you have already said was one of the top 20 players of his era -- so by your own argument -- stats are king --- you lose and you lose again.

McHale averaged 17.9 ppg, Worthy 17.6; McHale averaged 7.3 rpg Worthy averaged 5.1; McHale shot .554 from the floor, Worthy shot .521; McHale shot 80 percent from the free throw line, Worthy shot 77 percent; McHale averaged 1.7 blocks per game, Worthy averaged 0.67 blocks per game;

So please explain to me again how McHale's numbers make him an overrated player and how Worthy was a much better player than he was. You yourself said Worthy was a top 20 player and I just proved McHale was better than him using your criteria so what does that mean?

Again you are talking out of your ass and you are now in a league you have no chance in.

Do yourself a favor, cut your losses and admit you were wrong before you get embarrassed any more.

Just out of curiosity -- How many basketball people have you talked to about this subject?

I've talked to many, including some of the all-time greats and they all say the same thing -- McHale was one of the greatest players to ever play the game. These are former players, coaches and general managers.

And here is even more evidence to how pathetic and ridiculous you are being rather than to just admit you are wrong -- and dead wrong at that -- about Larry Bird not having another top 20 player to play with -- even though he had TWO FUCKING HALL OF FAMERS -- Do you really think Manu Ginobilli and Tony Parker will get anywhere near the Hall of Fame? Or be mentioned on the NBA's 500 greatest players ever, much less 50?

Dude, sometimes it is best to cut your losses and with every one of your posts I am more and more convinced that (a) you are clueless when it comes to basketball and (b) you are younger than 25.

And I'll say it again, to try and make an argument that Larry Bird didn't have any great players around him is the height of dumbassery.

And here is a quote from Hubie Brown, who I think knows a thing or two about basketball, about McHale and what he was as a player....

"He became the most difficult low-post player to defend -- once he made the catch -- in the history of the league," contended former NBA coach Hubie Brown in the Boston Globe. "He was totally unstoppable because of his quickness, diversification of moves and the long arms that gave him an angle to release the ball over a taller man or more explosive jumper."

Yep, he definitely rode the coat tails.....

 

Yes, yes and yes.

The Cavaliers' offense throughout the fourth quarter was infuriating to watch. The last play with four guys clearing out and LeBron driving in was, more or less, what they had done on just about every single possession coming down the stretch.

MAKE A @#$%ING ADJUSTMENT.

Get other players involved. Run some screens away from the ball. Have ANYBODY not wearing jersey No. 23 actually do SOMETHING to prevent the Pistons from collapsing like that. LeBron has shown an ability this year to work out of a post-up set. Easy to do against Tayshaun Prince? Probably not. But when you clear four guys out on every possession and have them do nothing away from the ball, you are making it as easy as possible to defend LeBron, and you're making it as hard as possible for him to score.

That falls on Mike Brown. You need to put your players in the best position possible to succeed, and he failed miserably to that end.

 

There's the problem right there. He needed to be gotten the ball in position to score all his layups.

Larry Bird himself said upon his passing the Dennis Johnson was the best player he ever played with. That DJ isn't in the hall of fame when McHale and Parish are is a joke.

He was part of a great TEAM. Being part of a great team doesn't directly make one a great player. There's no shame in being a good player on a great team. The Celtics then were loaded, with Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parish, Danny Ainge and Bill Walton. But he was only named to one All-NBA first team, and never named to the second or third team in his 13 year career. That's not a top 20 player in his era. If he is, he is constantly on those teams.

Did he suddenly get great after he retired? It sure looks like it, because he was rarely honored during his career.

Greatness at the power forward position means averaging 20 and 10, like Elgin Baylor (27 and 13 with Wilt grabbing more rpg than Bird or Parish), Moses Malone (22 and 13). By the way, on the NBA stats, big game James Worthy has 21.1 ppg, so I'm not sure where you're getting 17.6 from.

Tony Parker will one day be in the Hall of Fame. He's barely 25 years old, has two NBA titles already and appears to be headed for a third. He has already scored over 7,300 points in the league, and has over 2,500 assists. He's scored over 18 ppg in the last two seasons, and if he keeps his pace up and plays til he's 35 he'll have over 18,000 points in the regular season, more than McHale had in his regular season and playoff career.

You can also make an argument for Ginobili, given his achievements abroad before he came to the NBA and the fact the the hall of fame contains players like Drazen Dalipagic from the old Yugoslavia or Dino Menenghin of Italy, both of whom never played in the NBA. First team All-Tournament at the World Championships in 2002, Euroleague MVP, two-time Italian MVP. He may not get the numbers he needs in the NBA game, but you can't argue how good a player he is.

But I'm not saying that either are in the top 20 players in the league right now. They aren't. They fit in well and are excellent complimentary players to Tim Duncan, who is the Larry Bird if you will of this team. Quite a few teams would like to have them on their team.

 

LeBron needs to listen to his friend Wise.

Wise LeBron's Pearls of Wisdom, enjoy:

http://www.cavsinfo.com/videos/lebrons/pearls1.html
http://www.cavsinfo.com/videos/lebrons/pearls2.html (This one is specifically for the Detroit series)

 

I didn't see him offering any offensive plays for the end of games. Does he have any, because if he does he should really share right now.

 

You obviously are under 25 and never watched McHale play because most of his points came either posting up and/or shooting jumpers, particularly the fadeaway jumper, not making lay-ups. Of all the points you tried to make, this is the most absurd. So are you saying Shaq wasn't a top 20 player because he needed to be fed the ball to get his baskets? David Robinson? Hakeem? Karl Malone? --- They were all big men genius and big men need to have the ball fed to them.

And one other thing -- if McHale and Parrish were overrated and riding Bird's coat tails into the "easiest hall of fame" of all -- why didn't DJ and Ainge get voted into the Hall of Fame yet? And when is Michael Cooper, Mychal Thompson and Byron Scott's induction ceremony?

And your definition of greatness at the power forward position is laughable because the power forward is asked to do different things on different teams.

Karl Malone averaged more points and more rebounds BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A HALL OF FAME CENTER NEXT TO HIM like McHale did -- although in your warped mind Greg Ostertag is as good as Robert Parrish.

Again, with each post you show your basic lack of understanding of basketball, of the history of the game and the statistical variances of each player and why they exist.

Do yourself a favor -- go rent some old videos of games, not highlights, actual games from the 1980's and watch them then get back to me about Michael Cooper and Dominique Wilkins, who was not one of the NBA's greatest 50 players, by the way, being a better than McHale.

By any measure Kevin McHale was one of the greatest players of his time and of all time and Larry Bird benefitted as much from having he and Parrish around as either of them did from his presence.

The worst part about this is I hate the fucking Celtics yet here I am defending one of their all time greats.

Oh, and here you go...

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php/James_Worthy#Career_Statistics

 

GB --
Take our word for it.
Kevin McHale was the third-most valuable player in the NBA in the 1980s, behind Bird and Magic.

 

I see you ignored the rest of my post about Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili's credentials, the fact that Elgin Baylor did far more with Wilt beside him than McHale, and that you screwed up the facts on Worthy's career ppg.

You bring up Greg Ostertag, as though that has anything to do with Karl Malone's greatness as a player, and don't mention anything about my point that McHale suddenly became a great player after he retired when he was rarely honored during his career.

The fact that DJ isn't in the hall of fame being a disgrace was brought up by many when he passed away, although you appear to have forgotten that as well.

Here's a question I have for you: Since you have such a high regard for him as a player, do you think that he could have been a success as a team leader away from the Celtics? If he was the go-to guy for the Clippers or the Bucks in the 80's would they have been an annual playoff contender? I see someone who couldn't create his own shot, and therby, with the way the game was played in that decade, the answer is obviously no.

And since the answer to that question is no, how can he be one of the top 50 players to play the game?