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MVP discussions

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by casty33, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Exactly. He could have gotten the fans off A-Rod's back at any time since he moved to New York, and he's shown inclination to do so. Given how much A-Rod means to that team's success, and given the "leadership" role Jeter had, he failed to do his job.
  2. Claws for Concern

    Claws for Concern Active Member

    Pujols for NL MVP.

    Any votes for Frank Thomas as AL MVP or is it the David Ortiz-DH situation there?
  3. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I overspoke, but a leader is supposed to be there for his teammate, to have his back. And I wonder whether this A-Rod drama could have been avoided had Jeter simply ignored whatever beef he has with A-Rod and backed him up, like he were anyone else.

    You can't tell me that a happy, confident A-Rod would not have produced better than the one we've seen the last two years.
  4. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    I'm still waiting for someone to explain with a straight face how Jeter "kept that team together."

    By wearing a suit every day?

    By giving bland quotes to the media?

    By humping 20-something models?

    By freezing out A-Rod?

    I not usually in the business of defending Alex Rodriguez, but the idea that all Jeter's hits are done in persuit of the team's success and all A-Rod's hits are done in persuit of personal statistics, is a sham. One of the largest in sports. I think A-Rod sucks balls in the clutch, but I don't doubt his sincerity. He doesn't want to win any less that Jeter, he just isn't any good at it. If Derek Jeter were the type to give clubhouse speeches and invite guys out for drinks (like, say, Messeir), and if he were willing to stand by a teammate he hates simply because he knew it was in the best interests of the team (Thurman Munson), than yes, I would award him extra points for "leadership" in the MVP discussion. Because he does not, and often seems more concerned about his legacy than Bill Clinton ever was, I'll judge him by his stats alone.

    I wonder sometimes, if it were up to the players instead of Steinbrenner, if Mo Rivera would be the captain instead of Jeter. Maybe. Maybe not.
  5. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    If Jeter was such a great leader, you'd think they would have won once in the last five seasons, ever since O'Neill, Martinez and Brosius--the real heart and soul of those dynasty teams--left.

    And again: Anyone who says Jeter is all about the team has never seen him hack away at 3-0 with his hitting streak on the line against a rookie who can't find the strike zone.
  6. jagtrader

    jagtrader Active Member

    It's Jeter and Howard. One has the reputation and fame and the other has the Triple Crown stats.

    Pujols is still the best player in baseball -- by a mile.
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Some others got my point. I've heard leadership as an argument for Jeter to win the award and I don't think that he did a good job in that department this year.
  8. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Leadership is performance, period. When several important Yankees went down for most of the season, Jeter had the best season of his already high-quality career. That's leadership. He's no shrink. Counseling a neurotic star teammate ain't in the job description.
    You can't have it both ways. You can't make fun of the idea that Jeter has "intangible" value and then rip him for failing to display said intangibles.
    Yankee-hatred is an old and honorable tradition in American sports. It should not carry over into evaluating the merits of individual Yankees. Jeter is a Hall of Fame player. This was the best season of his career in a year when his team won the most games in the American League. By every standard set for the MVP award, he qualified and then some. He would have won my vote, although if Dye, my second choice, or Morneau won I wouldn't be surprised or offended.
  9. jagtrader

    jagtrader Active Member

    I don't know how the Yankees muddled through during those difficult times when they had six All-Stars in the lineup instead of eight. Jeter just carried those undermanned boys in pinstripes. What a leader.
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Once again, Yankee-hatred is not a substitute for evaulation.
  11. jagtrader

    jagtrader Active Member

    It's not Yankee hatred. It's acknowledging the guy played on a high-profile All-Star team. Worshipping big-city players because you see them more than other players is no substitute for evaluation.

    Jeter is Carlos Guillen with more hype. Their OPS+ stats are virtually identical and Guillen played in a much weaker lineup. I don't see anyone lobbying Guillen for MVP. Not enough pinstripes.
  12. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    So if you're not voting for Jeter you hate the Yankees?

    As overrated as he is, Jeter had an excellent year for a team with a $1.5 billion payroll. Take him away and the Yankees still win a ton of games. They did it after losing Matsui and Sheffield. Take Morneau or Mauer or Santana away from the Twins and that's an 85-loss team.
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