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Moneyball author Michael Lewis explains how Wall Street bleeped us all

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by LWillhite, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. Simon_Cowbell

    Simon_Cowbell Active Member

    When does the FBI move in on this?
     
  2. Paper Dragon

    Paper Dragon Member

    Best quote of the story:

    “It’s laissez-faire until you get in deep shit."
     
  3. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    lol
     
  4. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member



    Then it's: "MOMMY!"
     
  5. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    The problem is, this industry CAN'T be regulated. The government needs it too much. It has to sell a billion bucks worth of securities every day to stay in business, and the guys who buy 'em are those crazed kids Lewis describes. Many of 'em grew up in Shanghai or Zurich, but they're pretty much the same as our crazed kids.
    It's why the Secretary of the Treasury is always a poacher turned gamekeeper, like Paulson, or Robert Rubin before him. Obama will pick one too. It's self-defense.
     
  6. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    The really scary thing are the derivatives. I've heard it estimated that there could be as many as $1 quadrillion of bad derivatives buried in the global financial system.

    Take the global GDP and do the math, and I hope you have lots of stuff to barter with. Because that will be our economy.

    WOLVERINES!
     
  7. trifectarich

    trifectarich Well-Known Member

    There isn't enough room in our prisons for everyone who's in on this.
     
  8. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    The problem is, this industry CAN'T be regulated. The government needs it too much.

    I don't know what this means.
     
  9. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    I took Lewis to be saying that the problem was the numerous financial instruments being sold; basically more and more bets on one single roll of the die, a mortgage.

    The worst part is not the greed, that's inherent in capitalism, its the rating agencies that gave junk instruments high ratings. Moody's and S&P have better be lawyering up ASAP because they were the ones that the buyers, caveat emptor notwithstanding, were relying on when they purchased those "derivatives" and/or C.D.O.s.
     
  10. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    About three or four years ago I began hearing these ads on the radio for mortgages by a guy who sounded like a bookie. I should have figured out something was amiss then. (I don't hear his ads any more). I don't know how you just hit the "re-set" button on this thing. Ask the NBA who continue to draft players who have a "big upside," rather than proven ability and appear stunned when that player doesn't develop in the first three years.
    A couple of ideas though:
    1. If a company is "too big to fail," it is too big and should be broken up.
    2. If you can't understand how a company is making money, don't invest in it.
    3. If you can't understand what needs to happen for your investment to earn you a profit, don't invest in it.
    4. Assume a worst case scenario for every investment and ask yourself if you can live with it. While much of Wall Street makes it's money just from keeping it moving around, try and figure out what happens when it stops moving around.
    5. The business press (CNBC, Wall Street Journal) aren't there for the little guy, they are there for Wall Street. Hence, the boosterism and cheers for "great value" in down markets.
    6. Nobody is going to cause a stink when everyone is making money. It's kind of like boosters at a big football or basketball school that suddenly loses a few more games than they'd like. Suddenly, they notice that the program is corrupt.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That's not true. There isn't a fixed-income department on earth not doing its own research. No one buys anything just based on a bond rating by an agency. Most investors are looking for the places where they believe Moody's has it wrong. That is what creates opportunity. You are trying to do something the herd isn't, and you can find value because people think something is worth more or less than it really is. That is what Steve Eisman did in that article. He talked to the head of Moody's, laughed at him, and made an investment based on his own reading of the market.

    Moody's & S&P weren't doing anything illegal. They built a wrong model -- the way a lot of people built wrong models. They made what was a prevalent mistake of thinking that paper wealth -- the run-up in value of certain assets on paper -- was real wealth. They didn't understand that it was a house of cards that could tumble and because the underlying fundamentals were so weak, it was likely that paper wealth would evaporate. If there was anyone disseminating false information in order to profit at others' expense, I am all for prosecuting. And I am open to that if it can be proven anywhere. But Moody's didn't do anything illegal. You subscribe to their service. They rate investments. They don't guarantee performance of those investments. They CAN'T. Moody's is only as good as the quality of their ratings. They have blown it in many cases. You don't go to prison for that. You lose customers--who don't trust the quality of your product anymore, though. Let them whither and die.
     
  12. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    I believe that many institutional investors can only invest in certain rated securities. Lewis writes that some of the CDOs with a AAA should have been much lower rated. If those ratings had been properly given, then maybe some of the investments would not have been purchased. That's my hypothesis. Otherwise, there are no criminals nor culpable parties anywhere.

    This is not about the small investors, this is about the institutions who control the flow of capital and the possibility of a temporary freeze in any lending. That's the problem as I read it.
     
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