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Like him or not, he is the best ever

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by creamora, May 17, 2007.

  1. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    How many players do you truly believe are playing within the rules, completely within the rules? Because I would bet you that it's fewer.

    Players have been finding ways around the rules -- and baseball has been letting them do it -- ever since Abner Doubleday didn't invent baseball.

    Bonds' numbers aren't much more or less legitimate than anyone else's of this era. They're all inflated, and it's due to a lot more factors than just PEDs.

    But they are what they are. Celebrate them however you like.

    Me? I'll take them with a hefty grain of salt, knowing that baseball always goes through cycles like this, and wait for the pitchers to take over again in a decade. I'll appreciate that Aaron and Mays and Robinson and Killebrew hit all their home runs in an era that was heavily tilted toward pitchers. And I'll also appreciate that Martinez and Maddux were putting up sub-2.00 ERAs in an era that is heavily tilted toward hitters.

    But I don't think the PED dilemma is this Great Travesty On The National Pastime like George Mitchell might have us believe. Or that Bonds' cheating somehow has some huge impact on baseball and Perry, whose cheating gave him more wins than ~20 pitchers in the history of the game and put him in the Hall of Fame, is just a "jaywalker."

    Perry pitched in an era that made a mockery of pitching records, and he cheated to do it better. Bonds is hitting in an era that is making even more of a mockery of hitting records, and he cheated to do it better.

    It will all even out. It always does.
  2. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    i watched him and watched him quite a bit oop. and i am giving him all the credit he's due. he took absolutely nothing away from hitters other than an occassional extra base.
  3. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    buck - bonds hit 73 home runs at 37 years of age, perry went 18-17. people say gaylord cheated; he said he only was an oily human being. people say bonds cheated; his feat grew two and a half sizes.
  4. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    A young Andruw Jones was much more dangerous in the field than any-age Barry Bonds. I saw 'em both, and there's no comparison.

    Bonds might be one of the best left fielders of his generation. Jones is one of the top 3 center fielders ever. Behind Mays and Speaker, ahead of Griffey.
  5. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    These guys need to be factored in as well...

    If you were to do an all-time team, I would think Bonds is your starting LF.

    But what about these potential starters on that same team?

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml - CF

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gehrilo01.shtml - 1B?

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/willite01.shtml - LF? over Bonds, maybe

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/musiast01.shtml - 1B?

    Maybe someday the starting SS

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jeterde01.shtml - SS?

    I do think WS rings do need to be looked at as well. He should have gotten at least one in Pittsburgh if he was the best ever.

    I just convinced myself. No way is he the best ever if he could not lead one of the those Pittsburgh teams to at least the World Series.

    This guy did...

  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Joltin Joe just stood up in his grave.
  7. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    griffey plays the deepest center field known to man. hence, several base hits are credited to his defensive "prowess."
  8. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    why, did marilyn just cheat on him again?
  9. Simon_Cowbell

    Simon_Cowbell Active Member

    Sorry, fellas.

    There is a MAJOR discount on those accomplishments when it is achieved against lilly-white competition.
  10. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Hank Aaron had his best home-run ratio in 1973, at age 39. Suddenly, he hit home runs every 9.8 at-bats, a 40-percent increase over his career ratio (16.4 HR/AB), and almost four at-bats faster than he had hit home runs a year before. He led the league in HR/AB ratio for three straight years, starting in 1971 at age 37. He had never done it before, and never did it since.

    What's my point? I don't really have one, except to show that baseball is a funny game. Strange things happen.


    Cheaters happen, too. Baseball is full of them, and I think Bonds is one of them. I just don't think it's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine), and I don't think baseball should act like it's suddenly indignant about this type of cheating, at this time, less than 10 years after it went out of its way to turn a blind eye to the same type of cheating when it was more profitable and more celebrated.

    Put the onus on Selig and Co., if you're going to put it on anybody. But don't act like Bonds is the big, bad bogeyman in this traveshamockery we call Base Ball. It goes a lot higher than him.
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    And Mickey just dropped his beer.

    Billy Martin wants to shoot your horse as well.
  12. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    i know a lotta guys who took drugs in high school and college buck. none of them injected. chemicals change the man, as evidenced.
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