Kobe's Lakers v. LeBron's Cavs

I'll admit I'm not the biggest NBA fan but with LeBron going LeNuts last night and Kobe becoming LeBitch, I got to thinking is LeBron a better NBA player than Kobe?

If the Lakers were able to trade Kobe, straight up for Lebron, would they be better automatically?
Odom, Walton and Parker v. Hughes, Ilguaskas and Gooden, put up pretty much the same numbers, combined. The Cavs are a better defensive team.

Kobe may be a better individual talent, but I think if you put LeBron on the Lakers, he'll take the team farther than Kobe would with the Cavs

 

In the West? No.

 

I guess I should explain my answer. Obviously, the Western Conference is far superior to the East, whose No. 2 seed (the Bulls) didn't even win 50 games this season. The way I look at it, LeBron had a tendency to not show up for all 82 games of the regular season, so, combine that with the tough Western Conference schedule and all the injuries the other Lakers suffered this season, L.A. is probably still looking at a No. 7 or 8 seed in the West. So, then you have to ask yourself, could LeBron lift the Laker scrubs over Phoenix or Dallas? No. Both teams are much too deep to lose to the Lakers, whether it was LeBron, Kobe or even Michael Jordan himself.
Would Kobe get the Cavs to within one game of the NBA Finals in the East? Hard to say. With the Cavs, he'd have a much better front court to help support him. Ilgauskas, Gooden, Varejao (sp?) and Marshall are better rebounders and more consistent scorers as a group than Odom, Walton, Rony Turiaf, Kwame Brown and Bynum. Larry Hughes and Daniel Gibson are FAR superior to Smush Parker, Jordan Farmar (who has potential) and Sasha Vujacic. I think Kobe could at least get to the East finals, but beyond that, who knows. LeBron is much stronger, physically than Kobe and can do more things around the basket, but Bryant has proven many, many times to be the best clutch player in the game (the yearly NBA General Manager polls always say they'd want him taking the last shot for their teams), something that LeBron has yet to prove over an extended period of time.

 

Lebron -- 22 years old or thereabouts.

Kobe -- 29.

I do the math.

 

LeBron? Michael Jordan wouldn't have enough to take the Lakers out of the 1st round.

Having said that, LeBron will go down as the greatest of all time.

 

He took the Bulls out of the first round with a hell of a lot less than Kobe has now. Of course, you weren't alive when it happened, so I don't blame you for not knowing it.

 

I think Kobe's supporting cast is better than LeBron, but the West is stronger than the East. Hard to say if LeBron has passed him.

 

Umm, Doc, when? The Bulls went out in Rnd 1 Jordan's 1st 3 seasons, and didn't advance further until the 87-88 season when he had Charles Oakley, John Paxson and a couple rookies named Scottie Pippin and Horace Grant by his side. That's a HELLUVA lot easier than trying to carry the load with Smush Parker as your point guard and Kwame Brown as your center.

Its easy to bash Kobe, but he's been carrying SUCH a weak-ass supporting cast the last couple years that I just cringe when I see people faulting him for the early playoff losses. I believe MJ's the greatest player ever, but I doubt even he could've done much more with this Laker bunch.

 

This is the team that Jordan used to beat the Cavs in 87-88:

Michael Jordan 82 40.4 13.0 24.4 0.1 0.6 8.8 10.5 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 35.0
Sam Vincent 29 32.9 4.8 10.7 0.1 0.3 3.4 3.7 0.6 2.9 3.6 8.4 1.2 0.4 2.9 2.8 13.0
Charles Oakley 82 34.3 4.6 9.5 0.0 0.1 3.2 4.4 4.0 9.0 13.0 3.0 0.8 0.3 2.9 3.3 12.4
Dave Corzine 80 29.1 4.3 8.9 0.0 0.1 1.4 1.9 2.1 4.5 6.6 1.9 0.5 1.2 1.4 1.9 10.1
Brad Sellers 82 27.0 4.0 8.7 0.0 0.1 1.5 1.9 1.3 1.7 3.0 1.7 0.4 0.8 1.1 2.1 9.5
Scottie Pippen 79 20.9 3.3 7.1 0.1 0.3 1.3 2.2 1.5 2.3 3.8 2.1 1.2 0.7 1.7 2.7 7.9
John Paxson 81 23.3 3.5 7.2 0.4 1.2 0.4 0.6 0.2 1.1 1.3 3.7 0.6 0.0 0.8 1.9 7.9
Horace Grant 81 22.6 3.1 6.3 0.0 0.0 1.4 2.2 1.9 3.6 5.5 1.1 0.6 0.7 1.1 2.7 7.7
Sedale Threatt 45 15.6 2.9 5.8 0.0 0.4 0.7 0.9 0.3 1.0 1.2 2.4 0.6 0.1 1.0 1.6 6.6
Rory Sparrow 55 18.0 2.0 5.0 0.0 0.2 0.4 0.6 0.3 1.0 1.3 2.9 0.7 0.1 0.9 1.3 4.5
Mike Brown 46 12.8 1.7 3.8 0.0 0.0 0.9 1.5 1.4 2.0 3.5 0.6 0.2 0.1 0.8 1.8 4.3
Artis Gilmore 24 15.5 1.7 3.3 0.0 0.0 0.8 1.5 0.6 2.0 2.6 0.4 0.2 0.5 1.2 2.3 4.2
Elston Turner 17 5.8 0.5 1.8 0.0 0.0 0.1 0.1 0.5 0.1 0.6 0.5 0.5 0.0 0.6 0.3 1.0
Granville Waiters 22 5.2 0.4 1.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.1 0.4 0.9 1.3 0.0 0.1 0.7 0.3 1.2 0.8
Tony White 2 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0


I realize Pippen and Grant went on to become outstanding players. I grew up in Chicago. I went to games. I went to celebrations in Grant Park. But Pippen and Grant each averaged less than eight points per game as rookies. Dave Corzine was their fourth leading scorer, behind Sam Vincent and Charles Oakley. It was a dog-ass team that managed to win 50 games in a loaded Eastern Conference. Kobe would not have done that.

 

Decent response, but I'll lay you odds virtually any basketball expert would choose that group in a millisecond over this bunch:

Kobe Bryant 77 77 3140 813 1757 137 398 667 768 75 364 439 413 111 36 255 205 2430
Smush Parker 82 80 2457 342 785 110 301 113 175 45 161 206 228 119 10 153 211 907
Lamar Odom 56 56 2202 319 681 54 182 198 283 102 445 547 270 53 32 163 182 890
Luke Walton 60 60 1982 264 557 48 124 108 145 87 215 302 257 60 21 118 117 684
Maurice Evans 76 10 1732 234 542 48 133 122 155 93 128 221 74 38 14 57 126 638
Andrew Bynum 82 53 1793 247 443 0 3 143 214 139 345 484 94 12 128 115 249 637
Brian Cook 65 24 1018 185 408 46 115 34 47 61 154 215 65 25 27 51 134 450
Ronny Turiaf 72 1 1087 147 268 0 1 89 134 88 171 259 63 17 78 52 202 383
Vladimir Radmanovic 55 15 986 134 316 40 118 53 73 53 127 180 66 25 18 69 125 361
Kwame Brown 41 28 1132 143 242 0 1 59 134 81 163 244 75 39 49 76 124 345
Jordan Farmar 72 2 1090 124 294 45 137 27 38 22 97 119 137 44 7 73 77 320
Sasha Vujacic 73 4 935 105 268 60 161 43 49 28 79 107 64 41 1 30 103 313
Shammond Williams 30 0 345 35 86 20 50 4 6 11 29 40 31 12 0 13 20 94
Aaron McKie

 

It's a faulty argument. "Any basketball expert" knows what Pippen and Grant went on to become. Some of the Lakers have the potential to become pretty good players. But you only can judge them on what they did this particular season, and what they did isn't any worse than the 87-88 Bulls, except in the win category.

 

But, Doc, the statement in dispute that began this little debate was your assertion that MJ "took the Bulls out of the first round with a hell of a lot less than Kobe has now." Yet, the only evidence you can provide to back that up is a roster that includes the likes Scottie Pippin, Horace Grant and Charles Oakley. There is NO WAY you can credibly claim that group had a "hell of a lot less" than this Laker group, its absurd to even make the argument.

But its OK, you just exaggerated the truth a bit and got called on it. It won't kill you to admit it.