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Kafka Goes to Alabama

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by jgmacg, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. jgmacg

    jgmacg Guest

    The central, daily question of our tiny household.
     
  2. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Remember jgmacg, accused men are always the most attractive.
     
  3. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Kafka can't go to his right.
     
  4. jgmacg

    jgmacg Guest

    Fraulein Burstner thinks I'm on fiyah. Frau Grubach, likewise.

    Josef K. is drafting off my heat.
     
  5. HejiraHenry

    HejiraHenry Well-Known Member

    This may haver been a Capone-like case.

    Maybe Siegelman was prosecuted for the wrong thing, I don't know. But he – like most deep South governors of a certain persuasion (and this crosses party lines, no doubt) – was crooked as a walking stick.
     

  6. Where'd Robert Ray come from? THIS Robert Ray?
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/09/20/national/main234848.shtml

    Even in that, on Whitewater, he disagrees with Ken Starr -- and with the Pillsbury Report, and with Robert Fiske, Starr's predecessor, who got fired because he didn't pursue what Republican senators wanted to pursue -- which found no criminality in the Whitewater affair. Period. Full stop.
    The billing records? What exactly was supposed to be in the billing records anyway? Speculate for me, please.
    This is what the Ray reports says about HRC "carrying something out of the building.

    "could have been" a "rolled-up sheaf" of billing records sometime in July 1995."

    Off with her head!
    Ray also criticized the Clintons for defending themselves against a whole panoply of discredited charges including those made by live thief David Hale and dead nut Jim McDougal.
    And, anyway, what does this posibly have to do with my question about the career-ending beating poor Ken Starr took, not to mention your fundamental surrender iof your duties as a citizen?
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Read the report. It says, 1) "We can't get anything to stick." It doesn't exonerate them of anything. And 2) In fact, it points out delay tactics, not producing requested testimony, e-mails and documents, unmeritorious litigation ... oh, and LIES by Hilary Clinton which they nailed her on. But since it isn't George Bush acting like a criminal (and he has), you'll excuse it somehow, as if that is really the way we want the executive office and a future U.S. Senator behaving when under investigation for things that didn't pass any smell test. The Clinton's certainly benefited from the shenanigans, and everyone associated with them ended up ruined or in jail, but yeah, they are clean, upstanding people--or at least you'll argue the inarguable. Trot out the BS sarcasm about how the witch hunt wasted $60 million worth of taxpayer $$. Of course, if the White House hadn't obstructed, delayed and used every legal tactic they could conjure (which were all later thrown out of court--and cited in the Ray Report), it would have never rung up a bill like that. You'll never blame Clinton for that $60 million of wasted money, though. Ken Starr was a bumbler. Just a guy doing a job, not trying to win a political war. And he didn't have the charm and PR machine that Bill Clinton could ring up with a few calls to Hollywood. So he went down as the villain, while the two charlatans in the oval office skated clean.

    As for the billing records (and other documents and e-mails that disappeared--almost all linked to Hilary Clinton, who was most definitely intimately involved with criminal behavior associated with Whitewater), do you really want to take on the causes of people who withhold evidence that investigators are seeking, then make it disappear, and then LIE about how they made it disappear? Your argument is really, "Oh, she made it all disappear, but she wasn't hiding anything--just some billing records and other unimportant documents"? That is weak even for someone clouded by party politics.

    Yeah, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are evil and have skirted the law and smeared opponents using their power for political reasons. It's sickening. You'll get no arguments from me about it. It's as sickening as when Bill Clinton did it. Because Sidney Blumenthal and Hilary Clinton were as good at it, or better, and they not only skirted the law and used dirty tricks for political reasons, they've likely done it to enrich themselves, steal votes and for a host of other nefarious reasons.
     
  8. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Ken Starr as an innocent?

    Seriously?
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Great response. I'll wait for anything showing any kind of wrongdoing by him (ever, actually--he has led a distinguished career) or the way he ran that investigation. If you'd like, I can show you copious examples of how the executive branch of government used every legal tactic (and illegal tactics, such as withholding evidence) to make it impossible for him to come up with anything.
     
  10. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    1. He leaked information like it was going out of style, not exactly in keeping with your depiction of him as a political innocent.

    2. His report read like a B-movie porn script.

    3. His investigation into a land deal in Arkansas in the 1980s produced a report about the President getting a blow job in Washington in the late 1990s. If he was just a guy doing a job, what was the job?

    4. His investigation lead him to cut deals with people just as sleazy or sleazier than anyone the Clintons were in bed -- literally or figuratively -- with.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for such a tangible analysis.
     
  12. I have read the report. That's how I know, for example, that the three witnesses on the billing records story claimed to have seen HRC carrying a box of what "could have been" a "rolled-up sheaf" of billing records sometime in July 1995. And only two of them said they saw her carrying any papers, and neither of them explained how they would have known what a billing record looked like. But, never mind. I also read the Pillsbury Report, which exonerated the Clintons on Whitewater in July of 1995, and at $3.5 million a mere $67 million less than Starr/Ray on the same topic. I also know that Robert Ray, at the time he was filing his report, was preparing to run for the Senate from New Jersey and that he empaneled ANOTHER grand jury on the Lewinsky case on the day of Al Gore's acceptance speech, which I'm very sure was coincidental. It is also how I conclude that his mantra -- "insufficient available evidence to establish beyond a reasonable doubt" -- are the words of a weasel who can't give it up. Lawrence Walsh at least got indictments on Iran-Contra.
    And, since this is the original topic, are you really going to seriously compare the cooperation given by the Clintons to three special prosecutors, three congressional committees, and god alone knows how many depositions to a White House that refuses to answer congressional subpoenas AT ALL? Your Olympian detachment from all the messiness is a mask for smug apathy, as long as we're reading minds here.
     
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