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John Hart -- worst trader ever?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by TheSportsPredictor, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Nov. 1996: Jeff Kent, Julian Tavarez, and Jose Vizcaino for Matt Williams.
    -- Sheeesh, all three of those guys Hart traded are still playing! Kent's a possible HOFer.

    July 1997: Danny Graves, Damian Jackson and others for Jeff Branson and John Smiley
    -- OK, this was just bad luck, as Smiley broke his arm throwing in the bullpen and never threw an inning for the Tribe. But Graves and Jackson stuck around for another decade.

    Dec. 1997: Marquis Grissom and Jeff Juden for Mike Fetters, Ron Villone, and Ben McDonald
    -- This was part of a bigger deal that allowed the Indians to re-sign Kenny Lofton and acquire Steve Karsay via trade. Still, the price of Grissom for what they got was waaaay too much.

    March 1998: Sean Casey for Dave Burba
    -- At least Dave Burba gave the Indians some good years, and it was a trade made out of necessity. Still, Hart overpaid once again.

    Nov. 18, 1988 -- Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon
    -- Not even the SECOND-worst trade John Hart made.

    July of 2000 -- Richie Sexson and others (including Marco Scutaro) for Bob Wickman and others
    -- Wickman became the Tribe's all-time leader in saves, but wouldn't you rather have six years of Sexson than six years of Wickman? Overpaid again!

    Dec. 2002 -- Travis Hafner and Aaron Myette for Einar Diaz and Ryan Drese
    -- Even worse than Giles for Rincon!

    Sure, he made some good trades. But man, John Hart paid Mercedes prices for Yugos!
  2. No love for the empty golf shirt.
  3. Trey Beamon

    Trey Beamon Active Member


    "With where we're at right now, I'd have to respectfully disagree." -- David Littleyield

    Here are the current Pirates' roster members acquired (via trade) by said GM:

    Jose Hernandez (traded for in 2003, brought back as FA)
    Shawn Chacon
    Xavier Nady
    Freddy Sanchez
    Jason Bay
    Damatso Marte

    Players said GM traded who are currently playing -- several in significant roles -- elsewhere:

    Aramis Ramirez
    Oliver Perez
    Roberto Hernandez
    Chris Young
    Brian Giles
    Jason Kendall
    Dave Williams
    Jason Schmidt
    Rob Mackowiak
    Sean Casey
    Leo Nunez
    Kip Wells

    I haven't even mentioned Duaner Sanchez, Bronson Arroyo, Chris Shelton, players he let go for nothing.

    Not only is the guy still employed, he received a contract extension earlier in the year. ::) 
  4. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    As loaded as they were with hitters, there was much more of a need for Wickman than for Sexson. That one doesn't qualify.

    See above, make the names Casey (a Punch and Judy corner player -- not good) and Burba. That one doesn't qualify.

    If Ben McDonald had returned to form, that would have been a steal. As it was, a serviceable trade, doesn't belong.

    The other four, you have a point on. But Hart is far from the worst.
  5. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    No doubt. The guy did a nice job putting th Tribe together for their best run in years. It's not like he ran the Royals, circa this decade. They did go to two World Series on his watch.
  6. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    I won't complain too much about the Wickman trade. As it turned out, Wickman became the Tribe's all-time saves leader. Casey is no superstar and Burba turned out solid.

    But they were both in the same vein as many of the other trades that hard made -- overpaying because of an excess of talent. And he got burnt on that a lot more often then he didn't. I wouldn't say he won a single one of those trades. Maybe just broke even on a couple.
  7. Smasher_Sloan

    Smasher_Sloan Active Member

    Tavarez and Vizcaino are still playing, but what are they? Secondary role players who have bounced all over.

    To the guy who posted the Pirates stuff: They run an awful organization, but a big part of the agenda is unloading contracts. When you list players they traded, guys like Ramirez, Kendall and Schmidt were traded because they made too much money for ownership's liking or were coming to free agency. Those weren't baseball deals.
  8. viamsp

    viamsp Member

    I always got the feeling that a lot of times in Cleveland, Hart dealt from strength to try and add that one pitcher who could put them over the top. Maybe Schilling could have been that guy in 1997. I may be making this up, but I swear I heard somewhere that the Phils turned down something along the lines of Colon and Giles for Schilling.
  9. DyePack

    DyePack New Member

    Does Dave Littlefield sell cars? I'd feel pretty good about my chances of talking him into a deal I'd like.
  10. Orange Hat Bobcat

    Orange Hat Bobcat Active Member

    Wait, wait, wait ... the Indians received Hafner from Texas in that deal. How does that qualify for a bad trade?

    Also, if you're going to talk about the bad trades Hart made, TSP, you have to mention the following ...

    1989 — Joe Carter to San Diego for Sandy Alomar, Carlos Baerga and Chris James

    1991 — Willie Blair and Eddie Taubensee to Houston for Kenny Lofton and Dave Rhode

    1993 — Felix Fermin and Reggie Jefferson to Seattle for Omar Vizquel (Thank you, A-Rod)

    1997 — Kenny Lofton and Alan Embree to Atlanta for Marquis Grissom and David Justice

    Those are the four that come to mind without much thought. Yeah, Hart's trades started to fall apart after the heist with the Braves, but he had a great run.
  11. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    How 'bout Kevin Seitzer for Jeromy Burnitz? How'd that work out for Cleveland? I think Seitzer played maybe a year, Burnitz was a consistent 30 home run hitter for the Brewers for five years — about 1,000 strikeouts too — but the point is they got value for Seitzer, who was definitely on the wrong side of his career.
  12. micropolitan guy

    micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

    If the Indians keep Sexson, then where does Hafner play?

    After watchnig the Indians' bullpen the past two weeks, Wickman looks like a good trade.

    Wasn't the Colon to Montreal trade for Cliff Lee and another good player whose name escapes me now a good one, seeing as how there's no way Colon would re-sign?
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