Jeff Bagwell - HOF?

Guy - the jump from 93 to 94 has to be questionable. And the level he maintained after 94 too.

To put your reasoning in another light - take the peak years for Palmeiro and compare them to Mattingly or Rice or Dawson and you would get the same results as Bagwell vs those guys. But we all know why Palmeiro won't be getting into the HoF.

And as far as McGriff is concerned - go back and look at his numbers to see how remarkably consistent they were (no huge jumps). And ask the writers who covered him if they ever even for a second though he was a user.

 

Again, I'm not going to debate whether Bagwell used steroids - I have no idea. But if you take that question out of the equation (and I think you should, unless within the next 5 years we have something a little closer to resembling evidence - Are you accusing Puckett? No one's power emerged from nowhere more than his), he is an easy HOF pick.

What you call evidence of non-steroid use for McGriff, I would call evidence of non-greatness. Don Dutton with a bat, the paradigmatic accumulator.

 

Bagwell had three seasons cut short by broken hands, probably robbing him of the 51 homers he needed to reach 500. .297 average and 1,500 RBIs will get him. And what a baserunner! One of the smartest players in the game.
And yes, he was always good with the media. He and Biggio should go in together. So Biggio gets in first ballot and Bagwell, whose career ended two years before Biggio, will get it on his third and they will go in together.
If you ever get a chance to look at the Astros media guide, check out the offensive records. Bagwell and Biggio are 1-2 in pretty much everything. Biggio is pretty much first in everything, except homers and RBIs. Biggio has 970 extra base hits, Bagwell has 969, and Biggio is closing in on 300 homers.
That being said, Lance Berkman will shatter the team's power records within five years and will probably have the highest average, too.

 

If Tommy John didn't have Tommy John surgery, he might have won 300 games. But he didn't and he's not in the Hall. Injuries happen, and they affect careers.

Good with the media is a myth. Deserving pricks get in and borderline nice guys don't.

What exactly does it take to be 1-2 in all the Astros' offensive categories? It's not like they have the history of the Yankees or Giants. They're both good players and they both spent a lot of years with Houston. They should have most of the records.

 

That's almost as silly as some of the stuff in the thread about your up-the-butt girl. Maybe the Red Sox thought he was expendable, but given the player he turned out to be, they were wrong.

Bagwell wasn't just a power hitter and he definitely belongs above McGriff. Bagwell created opportunities for the hitters behind him with his on-base skills and his ability to run the bases. He had 202 career steals, including at least 30 in a season twice. McGriff was a base-clogger who set his career high of steals in a season with eight in 1992.

Bagwell was also the superior defender and putting up amazing numbers while spending many of his prime years in an awful ballpark for hitters.

 

Hey, Smasher,
Maybe you didn't read correctly, but I was just throwing that stuff out there. I didn't say Bagwell and Biggio shouldn't 1-2 in most categories and I didn't say anything about Tommy Fucking John. I'm just telling some folks some stuff they didn't know, and they don't need your two cents.

 

I don't think it's silly. Which is why I have a vote in the HOF. He doesn't make my ballot. Sorry.

 

So if you didn't mention Tommy Fucking John, that means no one else can introduce his name to illustrate a point about injuries and their affect on career stats?

Seriously, are you 12?

 

They gave you a vote because you can't recognize poor logic?

 

No Jackass, I EARNED my vote after 12 years of covering MLB.

 

OK, but that's not what you said the first time.

 

Don't talk to Smasher. He'll bring up Tommy John and get bent out of shape and try to discredit everything you say, even though you were just putting forth some thoughts. But he's smarter than us all.