HoF - Derek Jeter vs. Andre Dawson

Joel Sherman makes the point that the Yankees are going to be put in a tough situation after Jeter's contract expires in 2010 for many reasons.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02062009/sports/yankees/icons_next_pact_will_be_mother_of_all_ya_153772.htm

If Jeter retires after the 2010 season - he'll probably finish in the top 30 in runs and top 50 in hits with a better than .300 career batting average. At first glance you would think Jeter is a slam dunk for the HoF but when you look at the numbers - Jeter doesn't look as special as his reputation would lead you to believe.

Dawson - .279 BA / 1373 R / 438 HR / 1591 RBI / 119 OPS+
Jeter - .316 BA / 1467 R / 206 HR / 1002 RBI / 120 OPS+

Jeter has at least 2 more years to add to the stats but it is most likely that his OPS+ will dip below Dawson's 119 career mark. Jeter's mystique comes from largely being part of the World Series teams of the 90's. Dawson was the classier person and his 8 Gold Gloves were earned while Jeter's 3 Gold Gloves are a joke to many people. Dawson called it quits because his knees could no longer work. Jeter may call it quits because his ego won't let him take a pay cut.

If Jeter does call it quits after 2010 - is he really a Hall of Fame player? If he sticks it out for 3,000 hits he's a lock - but then what does that say about the voting process?

 

He almost assuredly will be around long enough to surpass 3,000 hits. As of right now, he has more hits than all but one Yankee, Lou Gehrig, and will almost definitely finish with the most hits in Yankees history (and it's a pretty distinguished list).

Four World Series rings, a World Series MVP, six times in the top 10 in MVP voting (twice in the top three), eight All-Star appearances, three Gold Gloves (make of them what you will, but he won them).

The guy is a mortal lock for the HOF.

 

As for Dawson being a "classier person" ... really? Not saying Andre wasn't classy, but Jeter is about as classy as they come as well. We're not talking Dawson vs. John Rocker in this category.

 

Plus, we know for a fact Jeter has never been on steroids. [/crossthreading]

 

You didn't note on-base percentage (Jeter's is 65 points higher) or the fact that one is a shortstop and the other was a corner outfielder for the majority of his career. You could make a case for Dawson, especially since Rice just made it, but Jeter is a lock.

 

Is the medicine for herpes a steroid?

 

Nice selective use of the stats Chris.
You, who talks about walks! and OBP all the time, conveniently omit the fact at that jagtrader raised...Jeter .387 OBP, Hawk .323.
Not to mention Jeter six 200-hit seasons. Dawson ZERO.
Currently, Jeter has 200 fewer hits than Dawson on nearyl 2,000 fewer at bats.

I think Jeter is overhyped and overrated to some degreee. I think Dawson probably belongs in the Hall.
Despite your hatred for all things Yankee (it's far worse than mine), there is no douobt Jeter is a first-ballot lock and Dawson will continue to be a borderline case.

 

The only voters who will heavily scrutinize Jeter's stats are those who want to find a reason not to vote for him, and there won't be many of those.

 

Hawk! Hawk! Hawk! Hawk!

And not Harrelson. Fuck that guy right in the ear.

 

In all seriousness, Jeter is a Hall of Famer.

I wish Hawk would get there, too, but I understand arguments against him.

 

Jeter would be a HOF-level hitter as a corner outfielder.

As a shortstop (albeit one of the worst-fielding in the majors; very posssibly the worst fielder in MLB history to play SS continuously for more than 10 years), he is an automatic first-ballot lock.

Dawson should probably be in.

 

Gold Gloves by a corner outfielder is about as relevant as the issue of angels on the head of a pin. Jeter being the glue of four World Series-winning teams, plus the stats, plus him being one of the players who defined his era...he's a lock. Dawson did have the misfortune of playing most of his career in Montreal, but except for his first season with the Cubs, he didn't particularly stand out among power-hitting outfielders. I'd say no.