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HEISMAN: Troy's Myth

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Jimmy Olson, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. McNuggetsMan

    McNuggetsMan Active Member

    This guy hangs around NDNation and claims to have a Heisman vote? I'd hate to be the editor that has to deal with this guy. He must become dumber with every NDN post he reads.
  2. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I was just pointing to an argument that counters yours. And I still say you can't judge a guy by what you believe he can do or what he did in other seasons. You should judge the player by what they are doing this season.
  3. Jimmy Olson

    Jimmy Olson Member

    Thanks for taking the bait shotglass.

    Your Running game stats:
    Troy's Myth, 1 Rushing TD.
    Brady Quinn, 2 Russhing TD.

    Troy's Myth, your great running QB, 26 yards per game.
    Brady Quinn, not so much.

    Brady Quinn also has twice the running 1st downs as sMyth.

    Your versitile "Mr. Everything" is not even the best player on
    his team. How can he be the best in all of CFB?

    Even this board doesn't agree on the best Buck guy on the team.
    One mentions Laurenitus, another mentions Gonzalez, I think that
    Teddy Ginn, Jr. is the best on that team.

    You and the other chap who are stumping so hard for sMyth as the "greatest" are falling all over yourselves. Get off your knees from in front of him for chrissake!

    I don't think he belongs on the ballot simply because he's a thug.
    1) Took money from a booster. (missed a game)
    2) Grabbed a woman by the throat (no penalty)
    3) Drunken fracus (no pentalty)

    Why should a guy who blatantly cheated the rules be allowed to win the most coveted award? Because he played for a guy who clearly bends the rules and had to leave Youngstown State for getting them in trouble?

    If you took off your foggy goggles for a moment, you'd see that my original post wasn't stumping for Quinn, as it was breaking down the false image that is Troy's Myth.

    Ray Rice deserves some ink and I think that this thread sheds some light to that.

    ...but back to your comment on the great diverse powers of Troy (and the goofball who "clearly sees that Troy is the best"...
    he's not a great passer, he's not that much of a runner. He isn't the most valuable to his team, he's a cheater, he doesn't deserve the award.
  4. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    Are you guys kidding me with this Ray Rice talk?

    Sorry, but Rice shouldn't even be a finalist. You want to talk about the media's impact, there it is right there.

    Let me introduce you to Mr. Darren McFadden. Ray Rice production, without the shitty schedule.

    I'd love for somebody to attempt to even attempt to argue that Rice should win something ahead of McFadden.

    Rice isn't even on my list of finalists.

    Troy Smith, Brady Quinn, Steve Slaton, Darren McFadden and Mike Hart are the top four in my opinion, though I love Chad Henne.

    You can't argue for Henne at this point, but what if he outperforms Smith and Michigan wins this week? A lot will be decided this weekend.

    If Michigan wins on the strength of its passing game, Henne rockets up the chart.
    If Michigan wins on the strength of its running game, Hart is the sudden favorite.
    If Ohio State wins because of Troy Smith, Smith is the favorite.
    If Ohio state wins in spite of Troy Smith, all bets are off.
  5. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    The more I think about it, the more adamant I am.

    If the season ended today, and the Heisman went to someone other than Steve Slaton, Darren McFadden, or Mike Hart, I would argue that a crime had been committed.

    If ever there were a year where a quarterback shouldn't win, it is this one. Look at the statistics. Smith enters the season finale well over 1,000 yards behind where any of the recent Heisman quarterbacks were: Leinart, White, Palmer, all through for well over 3,000 yards. Smith is barely over 2,000.

    I realize statistics aren't everything, but I think it is fair to compare Smith against others who have won the Heisman.

    Quinn's numbers are more Heisman-like, but when you have guys like Hart and McFadden in the mix, it's hard to argue for him.

    I throw Slaton out because we always penalize quarterbacks who are system quarterbacks. Slaton is a damn fine running back, but his numbers are inflated 1) because of the system and 2) because of the schedule.

    It's really, really hard to argue against Hart: Above 100 in all but two games, never below 90, playing for the No. 2 team in the country.
  6. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    1) Your an idiot if you think Chad Henne is the eight-best QB in the Big Ten
    2) I said you can't bring him into the discussion.
    3) If he throws for 275 + and 3 TDs and is the reason Michigan beats Ohio State, he certainly belongs in the discussion far more than Troy Smith does.
    4) No. 3 is irrelevant for now because Mike Hart is the most deserving Wolverine.
    5) You missed my point: Ray Rice in the discussion is laughable. But not talking about Hart or McFadden in the same breath as Smith or Quinn is just as laughable. Turn off Sports Center and actually watch some college football.

    Anyone who can watch McFadden or Hart play and attempt to argue against them doesn't deserve to have a vote.
  7. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Rice still still has three games to play, mind you. Should Rutgers run the table and Rice plays extremely well in all three, it would be hard to ignore him. And if the offense is as weak as some here says it is, then Rice's numbers should seem all the more impressive in spite of that offense.
  8. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    I think everyone will agree the Heisman will be decided from here on out.

    But McFadden and Hart are well ahead of Rice. If McFadden has good games in his last two (versus two of the top five rush defenses in the country), he'll be very, very hard to ignore.
  9. Dessens71

    Dessens71 Member

    As a Penn State guy, I watched Smith and Quinn play the games in question.
    >> Smith -- 115 yards, 1 TD, 2 Int
    >> Quinn -- 287 yards, 3 TD, 0 Int
    This might sound crazy, but Smith was a more valuable player than Quinn in these games.
    Smith's fourth-quarter TD pass to Robiskie, where he scrambled around, doubled back and threw the ball about 60 yards on the mark, was THE critical play in that game.
    Against Notre Dame, Penn State turned the ball over three times and sucked so bad in the first half that Quinn's annoying sister could have quarterbacked the Irish to a win.
  10. Twoback

    Twoback Active Member

    Among McFadden's titantic opponents: Ole Miss, Southeast Missouri State, Louisiana Monroe, Vanderbilt, Utah State.
    You care to try again?
  11. KnuteRockne

    KnuteRockne Member

    Jimmy - When you begin using words like "thug" with such vitriol after you didn't get the unanimous response you wanted, it makes me start to wonder what your real problem with Troy Smith is.

    Or are you one of those guys who has "a lot of black friends."

    You can't come here expecting to get the same lockstep agreement that you get on ND Nation.com. There's a wide world out there. You and your cronies there will be better off if you realize that someone can make a real case for Troy Smith over Brady Quinn or Rutgers over Notre Dame without being a "hater."

    Among the true professionals you guys have wanted canned through the years: Pat Haden and Tom Hammonds ("They hate Notre Dame!"), David Haugh (Man, you really derailed his career), Dennis Dodd, all Big Ten, Big East, Pac-10 and ACC officials, Kevin White, Stewart Mandel, Mike Golic, Bruce Feldman, Tom Dienhart, Greg Couch, Mark May, Doug Flutie, Craig James ... I could go on, but you get the point.

    "Haters" all of them, right? I mean, it's not possible they may make legitimate points that don't happen to include Notre Dame being the No. 1 team in the nation?

    As long as you bring emotion into the argument, you won't have credibility. And no matter how you try to dress up your blog or your posts here with pseudo-erudite language, eventually you falter and reveal yourself as simply a Notre Dame fanboy. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. But it colors your discourse. And for being the most prestigious program in the country - and one that should be very, very proud of its graduation rates, etc. - you guys sure can come off as astoundingly insecure.
  12. Jimmy Olson

    Jimmy Olson Member

    I think that your first sentance is spot on.

    I also happen to think that however unfortunate it may be, it may be just a two-man race at this point. Hart's chances may have been lost when he was injured early in the year. McFadden may have had just had the misfortune of not having enough "exposure". Also, being absent in his team's 36-point blowout by Southern Cal, may loom large.

    Rice still gets one more crack at the limelight before the votes are due. If RU wins until that time, he'll also get face time on the Disney Networks.
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