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Happy birthday, Nelson Mandela!

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by MisterCreosote, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

  2. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I'm flying to South Africa to celebrate. Does anyone know of a good travel agent?
  3. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member


    Oh, wait...
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    He shares a birthday with another great man, who turned 43 today.
  5. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    And you don't look a day over 25 with that piece of paper in front of your face.
  6. Nelson_Mandela

    Nelson_Mandela New Member

    Enkosi kakhulu.
  7. Blitz

    Blitz Active Member

    Yes, what a great guy for God to pick out and allow to be living such a long life.

    All these kooky kids who thing JBeiber or some rap star or actor or quarterback is "courageous" need to run a Googles or a Wiki on this guy.

    Happy Birthday to a fantastic person.
  8. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Oh, please, he's no saint.


    I am not trying to condone apartheid, but he wasn't exactly Gandhi.
  9. Nelson_Mandela

    Nelson_Mandela New Member


  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    He wasn't Gandhi. But Gandhi was one of a kind and a rare human.

    And Mandela has lived a remarkable life in his own right.

    Mandela did challenge a policy that discriminated against him because of the color of his skin. He led a wing of the movement that used arms and force. So, no, he was not Gandhi. But given the discrimination and awful treatment he received, why would that be the thing people focus on today, particularly given the peaceful means he used later in life to show kindness and forgiveness and to pull that country together and out of an awful policy of racial discrimination in the best way he could?

    He was thrown into prison for 27 years. And while it's easy to throw out a, "He wasn't Gandhi," comparison, what it misses for me is that when he was released from prison, he walked out a remarkable man, considering the bitterness most people would have carried with them. He gave South Africa the perfect mix of leadership qualities, forgiveness and a spirit that projected kindness and made reconciliation something that was going to happen by the force of his will.

    If you want to focus on the militancy of the ANC, fine. But put it within the context of Apartheid and how Mandela and people with his skin color were treated -- which led to them arming.

    What I will focus on are moments like when Chris Hani was assassinated, and Mandela gave that majestic speech that called for peace. The respect he engendered and the speech he gave, prevented a much worse violent outburst than what the country saw, and it allowed the transition from apartheid to really happen. It so easily could have been derailed at that point. Mandela might not have been Gandhi, but that speech certainly evoked the spirit of Gandhi, and after all he had been through, that, and all the other times he held that country together through the force of his personality and will, and everything he did to create a better racial harmony, is why he is such a remarkable man. After what he had been through and how he was treated? To me that is an incredible man.
  11. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Ragu, I admire him very much for the distance he came. And I am a fan of Mandela in general. He has done many great things since leaving prison.

    But for Blitz to pretend he is without fault, as he did in his post, is silly. That's all I was trying to say.
  12. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member

    I'm confused where Blitz said that:

    Great guy. Courageous. Fantastic. Not sure how that means without fault.

    And Gandhi? I feel a little like Hitchens going after Mother Teresa here, but come on. As noted above, he did a lot for Indians in South Africa. Blacks? Not so much.

    Gandhi and Mandela both had flaws. No doubt. But I think it's all right to still call Mandela courageous and fantastic. I think that's all Blitz was trying to say.

    And the Wiki you quoted where he admits the ANC violated rights, most of the incidents discussed were when he was in prison.

    Winnie Mandela's another story. She was actually involved in those incidents.
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