football stats questions

two honest-to-goodness questions. i'm wondering if i've been wrong for my very brief time in the business.

1. rushing yardage on a holding penalty. how would you factor this? i'd always given the runner X amount of yards (to the spot of the foul), then added 10 yards to the penalty ledger. now someone's telling me that you don't count it as a rush attempt for the ball carrier, and you adjust the penalty yardage from the line of scrimmage.

2. first-down conversions on touchdowns. i've always been told that when you score a touchdown you have converted for a first down, no matter where you are. a co-worker now says that if you are in a XXX-and-goal situation, scoring a touchdown does not count as a first down for statistical purposes.

yeah, i'm a dumbass for not knowing this, but i'd prefer to get it right. thanks for any help!

 

1. Runner gets the yardage to the spot of the foul, then assess a 10-yard penalty. You had it correct there.

2. Your co-worker is right. You only get a first-down conversion on a TD if it's possible to get a first down on the play.

 

What he said.

 

Yup.. first downs only happen on scoring plays of 11 yards or longer.

 

Not necessarily. If Podunk has a 3rd-and-1 at the Nowheresville 6 yard line and Johnny B. Goode runs it in for the score, that is a first down. You can have a one-yard touchdown count as a first down if the first down marker is at the half yard line.

 

But then you would have to credit it as a 2-yard run. You have to have one yard to make the first down. If done so without scoring, you still have to have a yard to go to the end zone.

The flip side is the guy who got it to or inside the 1 without making a first down has to get shorted a yard to make it all add up. The field (in the United States, any way) is 100 yards and no play or drive can be for more than 99 yards.

 

I know you guys are right, but I find that scoring weird.

If someone is scoring a TD, I just think it would be more accurate to give him a first-down on all occasions, than not.

Usually, no one has tackled the guy if he has reached the end zone.

 

The TD-first down rule is responsible for one of my favorite weird stats.
In the 1940 NFL title game, the Bears beat the Redskins 73-0.
Washington had more first downs in the game.

 

My thought has always been that on 1st-and-goal, you cannot acheive another first down, so it shouldn't be a first down if you score a touchdown.

If that's the case, shouldn't you give two first downs to someone who runs for a 70-yard score?

 

Point taken.

 

We had a wacky prep game Friday that was a total mismatch. The winning team won 54-0, but it could've (and should've) been a LOT worse. The winning team scored 8 TDs and 4 of them were on one-play drives. The team's stud accounted for 321 total yards on just 9 touches of the ball and scored 7 TDs (4 rushing, 3 passing) and also scored a 2-point conversion and kicked 2 PATs.

Total number of first downs: 7.

Don't ask me how. (Apparently the coaches agreed to run the clock continuously early on.)

 

If the hold occurs behind or at the line of scrimmage, the RB isn't credited with a rush attempt and isn't saddled with a negative rush, right?