Does Damon Allen belong in the Football Hall of Fame? Marino says no Moon, yes

Flutie had his shots in the NFL and never showed he was more than a gimmick. He was no better than John Kitna. Flutie was a great college player, a great CFL player and just another guy in the NFL.

 

Damon Allen's ability is remarkable, regardless of where he played and what league he played.

Sure, he's not played in the NFL, but why must everyone who aspires to play pro football HAVE to go to the NFL? Wasn't there an AFL before it merged? The USFL existed when the NFL was playing. Arena football seems to be everywhere.

The CFL has long been in the shadows partly because media outlets in the U.S. apparently haven't thought "Hey, it's football, perhaps people with insatiable appetite for football in the U.S. might actually want to follow it." That doesn't mean that Damon Allen can't be considered for a Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Allen's CFL numbers are strong. Sure, he's smaller than the prototype NFL QB, but then, at age 43, that's got to count for something. He's been successful in the league he's chosen to be in -- and stuck by -- so there's no reason to think that maybe, just maybe, he's a worthy Hall of Fame player.

And another thing, Marino and Allen have the same number of Super Bowl rings.

 

You might want to check out John Kitna's record as a starter and compare it to Flutie's.

Again, Flutie doesn't belong in the HOF. But he certainly merited a legitimate chance to play in a league where guys like Kitna, Dave Krieg and Joey Harrington get chance after chance to fail (and generally did/do).

 

The "CFL has their own hall of fame" line is baloney. Using that logic, American players shouldn't be considered for the Hockey Hall of Fame because of the existance of the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame in Minnesota.

It does raise the question, however, how does one define pro football, and that will probably end up being the crux of the argument. The CFL and ArenaFL both use substantially different rules than the NFL, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some FHOF buearucrat attempt to introduce legislation that defines football as a game played with 11 players on a hundred-yard field in order to exclude the other professional leagues.

However, I wouldn't say the NFL has the best athletes. They have the best athletes suited for the NFL game. But NFL quarterbacks have gone to the ArenaFL and had tons of trouble adjusting to the speed. When Stoerner came to the Desperados in 2005, he was never able to adjust to making very quick reads, the lack of a five-step drop and several other quirks of the Arena League.. He was alright, but the career AFL quarterbacks beat the pants off of him.

I bet some of the CFL guys have strengths NFL guys lack, especially in terms of raw speed or quickness. But they'd simply get killed by the size in the NFL. It doesn't make them a better or worse athlete, just suited for different things.

 

Not only will he soon have more passing yards than any quarterback in football history, Allen is only 464 yards short of his brother Marcus' career rushing total. He ran for more than 1,000 yards in 1991 alone and is the only QB in the top 10 of any pro football league's career rushing list. In terms of career all-purpose yardage among all pro QBs, Damon Allen is already No. 1.

He also calls the majority of his own plays. How many guys in either league enjoy that kind of freedom? In Allen's case, it's been a key to Toronto winning its last three games and jumping right back into contention in the CFL's East Division. The guy is a 43-year-old grandfather and is only getting better with age -- he passed for more than 5,000 yards last year AND was 12th in the league in rushing.

As has been said, if guys like Damon Allen and Doug Flutie are not deemed worthy of induction into the hall in Canton, its name should be changed to the NFL Hall of Fame or American Pro Football Hall of Fame. To call it the Pro Football Hall of Fame and not include those who have excelled in all pro football leagues is disingenuous, to say the least.

 

Columbo,

Your contention that Moon and Williams had "broken the color barrier in earnest" by the time Allen started playing is misleading, if you are referring to the NFL.

Moon had played one NFL season before Allen's debut in 1985. That was a year he had 12 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. There was still serious debate as to whether or not he could do the job.

Doug Williams' situation was even worse. In 1985, Williams was in Year III of his USFL exile. Despite all he'd done with the awful Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1978-82, NFL teams weren't exactly clawing at each other to get him. When he came back to the Redskins, he was Jay Schroeder's backup. If Schroeder doesn't get hurt (and that was one year after Williams returned), we don't get the "How long have you been a black quarterback" urban legend.

I guess you could say that by 1985, Moon and Williams had integrated the position just as Moses Fleetwood Walker and brother Welday had integrated baseball in 1883. They were there, but had they changed the attitudes? No way, not yet.

 

Point taken to an extent. Williams was the engine of the 1979 Bucs. He had a moron owner who didn't pay him what he thought he was worth. Then, Doug hurt his knees with the Outlaws and endured awful family circumstance.

I don't know to what extent attitudes were changed, but he was a hell of an NFL player before Super Bowl XXII.


But... I'm real sure Allen wasn't as good as either of them.

 

I can't believe this discussion is still going.

I don't care if Damon Allen ran and passed for 1 million yards combined.

IT'S IN THE CFL.

Oh, and I believe Schroeder lost the starting job without getting hurt. But it's been a long time.

 

So?

You have missed the point of this discussion.

If it's the "Football Hall of Fame", there's an argument for him to be there. And a good one. Otherwise, it's the "NFL Hall of Fame".

Got it?

 

It's the Baseballl Hall of Fame....

You want Triple-A and Little League stars in THERE?

Clueless take.

 

Maybe not status as Hall of Famers, but recognitition of some sort at least. Does the baseball HOF have any acknowledgement of accomplishments outside MLB -- the longest minor league game, the Negro Leagues, etc. Any recognition of Sadaharah Oh or Japanese baseball?
Maybe the Pro Football Hall of Fame could recognize Allen's accomplishment in some other fashion -- a display, perhaps -- acknowleging his longevity, the yardage and what has been a pretty distinguished career "up here." Or maybe its just easier to change the name to recognize the shrine for what it is: the NFL Hall of Fame

 

I could see that in some extreme examples.

But enshrinement?

Under no circumstances.