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Could Novitzky be under fire?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by creamora, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. rokski2

    rokski2 New Member

    Outstanding. With Nifong's and now possibly Novitzsky's/MFW's, ... bills coming due, it looks like we finally might be returning to some sort of karmic justice in the sports world.

    The article MFW & LW wrote about a week ago on Bonds was a joke, and little more than a last-ditch PR ploy to essentially 'please get Barry before he breaks the record or we'll look like even bigger fools than we already do.'

    Right now, that's looking highly unlikely. In fact, it seems right now as if the last hope for that is if Giambi sings. If you think Giambi is going to implicate Bonds, you're crazy.

    Bonds is 9 away, Kobe is whining through a pliant Bucher, Nifong is on his way to disbarment, and the Novitzsky/MFW insane clown posse is looking to be going the way of General Custer.

    It's a damn, damn good day my friends. Wanna-be MJ's, on-the-hook NBA reporters, joke DA's, vengeful IRS operatives and profit- and glory-hungry reporters have been put on notice. Here, here.
     
  2. creamora

    creamora Member

    After hearing the audio of the Larry McCormack interview on CBS again, here is more precisely what he said, "There is definitely culpability on the part of the reporters. The reporters are guilty of wrongdoing on several levels."
    It may be that McCormack will have more to say about Mark Fainaru-Wada's aiding and abetting of the crimes committed by Ellerman. It may also be that there is evidence of obstruction by Fainaru-Wada. This MAY all get very interesting soon.

    Also, Michael Rains has let the cat out of the bag already regarding Jeff Novitzky's investigative misconduct being part of the evidence he has turned over to the US Attorney. A sound bite of an interview he recently did was recently aired on CBS. The entire Rains interview will be aired on Sunday night at 11:30 PM on a Bay Area sports show on channel 5. Rains names Novitzky and talks briefly about the type of investigative misconduct involved. It may have something to do with false information provided in the affidavits submitted to obtain the original search warrants. This MAY get very interesting soon, too.

    I also find the timing of Kevin Ryan's public statements to the effect that the story is nearing an end to be of interest. Hmmmm. Maybe it's just a coincidence.
     
  3. creamora

    creamora Member

    It seems as though Kevin Ryan thinks the case needs some closure. Could it be that he knows there is a lack of evidence and that they are unable to bring an indictment against Bonds? It's interesting that the Chronicle boys are now helping Ryan announce his prediction of the end of the case on the front page of the Sunday (tomorrow) edition. What happened to all the slam dunk evidence presented in the Game of Fabrication? Is some closure around the corner as Ryan predicts or might it be some exposure?



    Prosecutor reflects on BALCO firestorm

    These days, in discussing the case, Ryan avoids mentioning Bonds by name. But he predicted that his successor, acting U.S. Attorney Scott Schools, would wrap up BALCO -- and, by implication, the Bonds perjury probe -- relatively soon.

    "It's almost been five years," Ryan says. "All things must come to an end. At some time, we have to have closure."

    He declined to predict whether Bonds would be indicted.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/17/RYAN.TMP
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    No number of "twists and turns to come" and "could it bes?" and parsing of legal wranglings few people not involved give a crap about, obscures the realities as most people correctly see them, cream. Sorry.

    No matter how much you try to shift the spotlight to "the Feds (or Jeff Novitsky) or the media (the SF Chronicle) It's still inescapable that BALCO got busted, the principles involved all went to jail as drug dealers, and the evidence--combined with ridiculous corroborating evidence of his usage--shows that for at least a time, BALCO was supplying Barry Bonds with performance-enhancing drugs that he lied about using under oath.

    It all sort of begins and ends with that for people, cream. The sophistry doesn't change it and it doesn't take anyone's eye off the ball. How about instead of another "Could Jeff Novitsky be hiding dead cats under his bed?" post, you address what we DO know. Was BALCO dealing steroids to athletes? Was Barry Bonds one of those athletes? And if you say no (and it would be a lie if you said no), why was Greg Anderson keeping detailed doping calendars documenting his use? Did all of the principles involved with the BALCO case plead guilty and go to jail and now carry the label of "convicted felon" around with them?

    Those are all things that DON'T require the mental gymnastics of your "could bes" that are simply meant to stain the people who had the temerity to shed light on the athletes who got caught and the drug dealers who were supplying them.
     
  5. creamora

    creamora Member

    You are simply wrong and do not have any evidence to support your statement that BALCO supplied Bonds with steroids. There is no evidence of that whatsoever. If there were any type of calanders found at Anderson's home, there is absoletly nothing connecting them to BALCO, period. You simply do no know that the evidence is in the case. I could make up a calander and put your initials on it. What would that mean, if you've never seen it in you life. There is something called beyond a reasonable doubt and a series of fabricated lies is not going to get you there. Bonds will walk whether anybody else likes it or not. The government spends fifty million dollars and get a maximum sentence of four months in a club fed. More serious crimes were comitted by the government agents, lawyers, prosecutors and reporters than those committed by any of the original defendents in the case.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Plenty of evidence, cream. Just not definitive proof, which never exists to everyone's satisfaction, but is pretty overwhelming in this case. If it's your assertion that BALCO did not supply steroids--including the previously undetectable THG--to dozens of athletes (including Barry Bonds), at least for once your motives are clear in trying to shift the spotlight elsewhere.

    I don't think it's true. I think the evidence clearly shows that BALCO was in the business of supplying illegal steroids to athletes, who in turn were using them in defiance of the rules of their sports. Is it the crime of the century? Not in my opinion. I just wish people would be honest and take responsibility for their actions, rather than outright lying or using tactics designed to obscure and shift the focus elsewhere. There is plenty more evidence that BALCO was supplying steroids to dozens of athletes, including Barry Bonds, than there is evidence of the "more serious crimes" by everyone and their uncle (i.e. the entities involved with busting up the whole thing) not named Victor Conte or Tim Montgomery. It's not just my opinion, cream. I am not sure how many people really care about it, but among those that do, there are far more that of my mind than of yours.
     
  7. Ragu, at least you're consistent. You (and I and many others) believe steroids are illegal and players who used them were cheating. We also believe the evidence is overwhelming that Bonds and others used them. We rooted for McGwire and Sosa in '98, Marion Jones in 2000, and while we never liked Bonds we respected his 2001 season. Then we decided the evidence against them --- and Floyd Landis, Tim Montgomery, maybe even Lance Armstrong --- was too much.

    The other side alternates between saying that a) there's not enough evidence Bonds used steroids, but b) steroids aren't that bad. (Hence the previous, baseless argument that Lyle Alzado died of HIV and not brain cancer related to steroid use).

    And for those continuing to hold out Novitzky as some Inspector Javert, a one-man band, please. The conspirancy would also have to include the USADA, Kimberly Bell, numerous other IRS agents in at least three states (California, Arizona and Florida), and a plethora of other people.

    But go ahead, keep trusting Bonds' lawyer. The same lawyer who has never filed a libel suit against the Game of Shadows authors. The same lawyer who only officially challenged the authors' right to profit from leaked grand jury testimony, a challenge that was quickly turned down. The same lawyer who was made a fool on the Dan Patrick show last year and, to my knowledge, has stopped doing radio shows.

    If evidence comes out that Novitzky is guilty of misconduct, he should be dealt with swiftly. But it would have to quite the level of wrongdoing to in any way cancel out the considerable evidence that has accumulated in the BALCO investigation. And I find it strange that a few here --- and it's only a few --- are so gleefully accepting flimsy evidence that such misconduct took place (the word of Rains) while discounting the mountain of evidence in Game of Shadows, other reporting and other BALCO files.
     
  8. rokski2

    rokski2 New Member

    Some lessons which could be emerging from the BALCO case vis-a-vis Bonds:


    1. You cannot take 'justice' into your own hands, particularly when what you actually seek is vengeance.

    There's a name for the sort of thing: vigilantism. Doing so when one is a member of the government whose laws are supposedly being upheld is even more distasteful. If Novitzky is shown to have committed misconduct, it should serve notice for the next yahoo who decides on a whim (and for some free, hagiographical pub in a fawning authors' book) to 'exact justice' from someone whom the vigilante feels deserves some kind of moral comeuppance or whatever his deranged thinking has ascertained. Or, two (supposed) wrongs do not make a right. If Novitzky did commit misconduct, I pray for our youth that he does hard jail time for his misdeeds. Such deeds are unacceptable and the government should set a stern example in this extremely high-profile case. Unlike what some seem to want in light of the tide of legally admissible evidence and demonstrable proof turning against their desire to 'get' Bonds, this remains a huge case, and any persons either being charged or not being indicted will have enormous reverberations for years to come. Please, if Novitsky did something wrong, set the correct precedent and drill the guy so that generations to come will understand the seriousness of what he may have done.


    2. Self-aggrandizement under the guise of 'the public's right to know' does not pay. If you abet someone in his breaking of the law, you are violating ethical mores, and deserve recrimination.

    MFW, LW and the Chron were the proverbial 'king(s) of the world' that day in SF court where unwitting journalists cheered their supposedly laudable actions. If Ellerman is to be believed, MFW cajoled him into releasing the grand jury testimony. That is, sealed grand jury testimony protected by the law from disclosure. In other words, MFW was suborning a a federal offense if Ellerman is telling the truth. Why was he doing it? For some high moral causes? Or more likely for his own fame, fortune and celebrity? Think of the amount of press, media and celebrity - not to mention acclaim from those in and around MLB who wanted at all costs to bring Bonds down, some for racial reasons, some not - MFW+ have received in the wake of Game of Shadows, etc. And as I have mentioned repeatedly, this was not a text which was made free on the internet, it was and is a for-profit venture all the way, and MFW, LW and the Chron have milked it for every last dime, interview and paper sold that it was worth. When you carefully consider the apparent motivations here, a guy who was allegedly taking PED's to keep up with the Jones' in the sport looks a lot less suspect than those who would seek to publicly try him for supposedly moral reasons. To anyone with a shred of a nose for this sort of thing, its has stunk to high Heaven from the get go, and it is not the least bit surprising that we now appear headed down a sad, disappointing track of those investigating and writing 'Wolf!' being found in serious misjudgment if not outright criminal activity. Or also, The means does not justify the ends. It is beginning to look like the Mike Lupica's of the world are going to have to go to considerable lengths to painfully remove the considerable egg which is seemingly affixed to their collective faces.


    3. The law matters.

    Unlike some who have argued vociferously against here, equal protection under the law exists and is crucial to the American system of justice. We do not get to decide when grand jury testimony being revealed is 'acceptable,' and when it is not. We do not get to decide when contempt of court or failing to listen to a judge's orders is acceptable. If you would like that system of justice, then you support kangaroo courts and sham trials. Sports reporters' and newspaper managements' mental legal 'rulings' do not and cannot supersede those decisions made by career justice professionals who actually possess legal training and vast experience. If MFW and/or anyone else connected with this sordid episode in American journalism can be either charged with a crime and/or found liable and/or reprimanded/suffer negative career repercussions/fined for his/her/their incredibly poor judgment in this matter, I appeal to the justice system and/or his/her/their superiors to act on that if the evidence supports those findings, as it seems to do. You should not be able to suborn a federal crime with impunity, be you engaging in witness tampering, grand jury testimony disclosure or any other heinous crime against your community, state or nation. In such a watched case, setting an appropriate example of such legally demonstrable transgressors is absolutely critical. Particularly, for justice's sake, when such alleged transgressors have so utterly benefited from his/her/their ethical and/or legal breaches. No one -- not Barry Bonds nor MFW+ -- is above the law.


    Those who have hunted Bonds have always sought refuge behind the law. Perjury, tax evasion, etc.

    Until now.

    Coincidence?

    I have been adamant in my position on this issue ever since I came to SJ. While it is personally nice to seemingly be coming to a point where my suspicions were proven correct, there are far more important factors going on here, and they are paramount.

    When you have an NFL quarterback approaching what looks like criminal charges because of seemingly selective dog-fighting laws, you better make damn sure you've got your i's dotted and your t's crossed when you are going after another, even-larger athletic superstar. Who, let's not forget, happens to be an African-American. If you're the Justice Department and you botch this case or indict and railroad a guy on legally indefensible evidence, you could lose a significant portion of your country's population in the process. Get it right, and do the right thing. Do not give into the 'lynch mob' if you cannot defend your actions in court and/or to the public whom you serve.

    I am excited in the twists and turns of the last 24 hours. Nifong has been disbarred and the seemingly dubious Chron & Novitzky Gang appears to be heading for their last roundup. Two instances where the law met sports and it took a long time to get it right, or is taking a long time to apparently get it right. Justice was served for Nifong. Will the government and/or the journalistic and baseball community be able to do similarly in the case of BALCO? Time will tell.


    Barry Bonds entered his 'plea' today: I now stand but 8 HR's away from the most hallowed record in sports, and the hell with Novitzky, MFW, LW, the Chron and everyone else who seeks to stop me via their own legally- and ethically-questionable theatrics.

    That is, the yet-unindicted Barry Bonds. Let's all keep that in mind in this land of the free and the brave; the land of due process and legal vs 'factual' guilt.
     
  9. rokski2

    rokski2 New Member

    Here's the printable link to the article I believe Creamora is referencing, the latest Sunday piece from MFW+LW on the BALCO prosecutor. Haven't had the chance to look at it thoroughly yet, so I can't comment now:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/06/17/RYAN.TMP&type=printable
     
  10. rokski2

    rokski2 New Member

    As the case against Bonds seems to be falling apart an Bonds nears the HR record, I believe we will begin to see more articles like this one from MSNBC's Mike Celizic:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19281041/

    As I wrote several posts above, apparent factual proof is not enough to bring someone down who is approaching the milestone Bonds is approaching. Selig better get off of his duff and decide if Giambi/etc are going to rat out their fellow players, b/c if not, it's time he gear up for the looming Bonds run.

    And he sure as heck better be there when Bonds breaks it. When you play high-stakes poker and you lose, you don't get to take your chips back. BALCO, Mitchell = no convictions of Bonds, so far. Game of Shadows means jack crap right now. All you have is illegally-leaked alleged grand jury testimony and a jilted former mistress going around right now. That's not going to cut it, except for the Bonds witch-hunters.

    Bud, prepare to do the right thing.
     
  11. creamora

    creamora Member

    Ragu,

    Hear me loud and clear. BALCO gave plenty of drugs to athletes including . Kelli White, Dwain Chambers, Bill Romanowski, Tim Montgomery and many more. There is no evidence that BALCO gave any type of drugs to Barry Bonds. If Bonds got drugs from some other source, then so be it, but there is no credible evidence that Bonds received drugs from BALCO. Bonds will walk because the evidence is simply not there to convict and the feds know this full well.
     
  12. rokski2

    rokski2 New Member

    If Giambi, etc. can't or won't finger Bonds, this thing is over.

    For Bonds.

    For the Chron Gang, Novitsky and some apparently prematurely self-congratulatory writers, it seems the game may be just beginning.

    Because the LAST thing the Justice Department wants is to be made to look like fools. You think it's a coincidence that MFW & LW did a story on the prosecutor today in the Chron? It's called covering your ass. If the feds don't get who they want, they're going to want to get someone, so they don't lose face. Know what I'm saying?

    MFW & the Chron know what I'm talking about. That much I'm certain of. Hence adjectives like 'husky' in the mutually-congratulatory piece in the Chron today. Strong, flattering adjectives.

    The Chron Gang is trying to put a nice bow on their Titanic. "Oh, the landscape of sports has been changed forever b/c we brought the case," blah blah.

    Nope. No it hasn't. Don't break your arm patting your back.

    The people who understand how pro sports really go down are the Victor Contes of the world. They are at ground level. Things look a lot different down there than they do when you're buzzing by for profit and headlines.

    And the beat goes on, kids. Until comprehensive, vastly improved testing comes into place. Goes on in MLB, goes on in NFL, in cylcing, etc.

    No "Game of Shadows" changes that. Particularly when such a 'thoroughly-researched' book can't even bring an indictment against the supposed 'roid poster boy, let alone a conviction.

    My guess is Novitzky will take the fall, and the pusillanimous Chron Gang will get off free, with a few more Feds-flattering articles and assorted bootlicking thrown in.

    And that, IMO, is a shame.

    But forever will MFW+ be known as the 'aiders and abettors,' and the 'didnt get an indictmenters.' That scarlet lettering is some form of justice, at least. Karmically, it is not enough, IMO. But it is something.

    For Lupica, etc. if things continue on this path, their rep suffers, as it should be. They got played for rubes, after playing the other side of the fence in the Mac-Sosa chase. That will go on file, if not the obit. That is just, as well. Seeing Lupica have to increasingly qualify and reduce the scope of his bs charges has been most gratifying. I will have almost been happier to have seen that squirming amongst Loopy and his similarly-overjubilant brethren than to have been proven right, if things continue on their current path.

    Remember, part of why Whitlock got fired from ESPN was b/c Loopy didn't like that JW wasn't falling in line with the "Bonds talking points" on Sports Reporters. Loopy deserves some karmic getback on this one if nothing sticks to Bonds. He might not be Nifong, but he's got a little, teeny bit of the slimeball DA in him for the crap he's pulled the last few years with Mac and now Bonds, particularly after PERSONALLY profiting from the other end of the alleged 'roid party.

    Mike - I want you to read this loud and clear - saying 'you didn't know, and no one knew' back then when you wrote your effing book on Mac and Sosa is not going to cut it. You ARE on the hook here, and you will be held to account.

    You, Loopy, and the rest of the jackass clown sportswriter posse have two choices:

    1) You admit you don't (and sure as hell didn't) know JACK about PED's, and didn't attempt to look into a story staring you straight in the face and now are practicing ex-post-facto vengeful, coincidentally self-beneficial columnization

    or

    2) You admit you knew or suspected what was going on at the time and you willfully looked the other way, for reasons of personal profit and aggrandization

    Those will be your choices, if things continue on the track they are on. And if they do, I and many other will say 'Eff you' to you, Albom, George Will, Keith Olberman, Bob Cost-ass and the rest of the pathetic, naive 'purist' element.

    Now are people beginning to understand why JDV came on here to defend Mac? If you don't understand yet, you are clueless and hopeless. You don't choose convenient scapegoats because you - MLB execs, idiot sportswriter, jackass HOF voter, or congressperson - want to save you own ass. If you do, you will be called out. Now that the internet exists, people will call you on your bullsh*t. Remember that, and choose your targets wisely in the future lest again the hunter becomes the hunted.

    Of course, this is all contingent on what shakes out on Bonds, etc. But let's just say that the following will be a part of my speech if things continue on their present course -- Eff: Novitzky, The Chron Gang, Selig, Lupica, Albom, Costas, the purists and any other racist punk who wants Bonds to go down and those who seek to scapegoat Mac.

    Eff all you chumps. You don't know sh*t about what you're talking, and it looks like the government is about to come to the same conclusion.

    Thanks for wasting my tax dollars, @ssholes.
     
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