CNN.com Baseball's Most intimidating pitchers of all-time

Rivera was great earlier in his career in the playoffs. He has lost his stuff recently. Just ask David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez about how intimidating he was in the 2004 playoffs. Ever since 2003, he hasn't been the same. You could say the same thing about Gagne after his injury, but if I had to pick a closer to come in the ninth inning in their prime, I would call on Gagne. The man has a bunch of different pitches that always fooled hitters.

Mo was never a great strikeout closer. In order to be intimidating in my book, you need to be able to strikeout batters with great frequency. Mo never did that. His highest total ever was 130 in 1996, where Gagne posted two years at or above 130, and several above 100. Wags is the same kind of pitcher that strikes out a bunch of hitters, staying above 90 for several seasons.

 

This isn't an argument about who is a Hall of Famer. I don't doubt that Rivera won't be a first ballot HOFer. I am talking about intimidating. Mo's cutter is a great pitch, but he has lost a lot on it as of recently. If you are talking about best pitches of all-time, Mo is up there, as is Wagner and Santana's change-up.

 

That would be fine if we were talking about 2007 Rivera, which we're not here. We're obviously talking about these guys in their primes, or close to it. No, Rivera wouldn't get a ton of strikeouts. He'd just shatter the bat in your hands. I don't consider either guy to be intimidating, but he definitely belongs over Wagner.

 

In your opinion, what makes a fastball good? Obviously location, but speed? What else?

 

1) Repertoire.

Otherwise known as "having other pitches." A great fastball is all fine and well, but every fastball can be caught up to. There are hundreds of "throwers" who can hit 95 on the gun and can't get anybody out. A fastball has to be used well for it to be effective, which means you have to be able to set up other pitches with it and, just as importantly, set up your fastball with your other pitches. Mariano Rivera is one of the only pitchers alive to succeed by using only one pitch, and that's why his cutter is perhaps the No. 1 most unhittable pitch in baseball history. (Knuckleballers excluded.)

2) Movement.

Or what is commonly referred to as "pop". Hitters talk about a fastball that "explodes" -- that is the moment when a fastball looks to the naked eye like it actually jumps forward when it's on the way to the plate. Most fastballs are straight and hard; a select few are not.

3) Location.

The Steve Dalkowski factor. A 106 mph fastball isn't any good if you can't throw it for a strike.

4) Speed.

The least important of all a fastball's qualities, as evidenced by all the cookie-cutter prototypes (all the 6-3, 220-lb flamethrowers that scouts love) who don't have any business being in the big leagues.

 

Players deeply respect Rivera. They certainly never have feared him.

Properly left off this list.

 

Kelly Stinnett knocked the shit out of any intimidation Billy The Kid had.

 

Plenty of major leaguers throw 100 mph. Shit if you are going to put Wagner up there just because of his fastball then why aren't you pimping Kyle Farnsworth? Because he didn't play for the Phillies when you were 12?
And enough of this talk of Gagne being so fucking amazing. How has Gagne been the last two years sitting around nursing his Carl Pavano? His best pitch is a changeup, not really intimidating.
Just admit you are a Gagne fanboy and move on because you are sounding like a total fucking idiot by claiming Rivera sucks.
One more point, Rivera was only good early in his career in the postseason? What do you define as early? 1996-2003 is early? Also, he blew those saves against the Red Sox, but in two of those he came in with runners on, so it wasn't like he imploded on his own. And yes, why don't you ask Ortiz and Ramirez who they think the greatest closer ever is. I think there answer would surprise you since you think Rivera sucks.

 

Not from that left side, though.

Problem is, he is a lefty.

 

I might have given Dibble some consideration.

 

Gola, I never said that Rivera "sucked". I simply said that he wasn't intimidating in my book. If you can see "not intimidating" and read "sucks," Ray Charles needs to check your vision with a pin needle.

I am not all over Wagner's nuts because he was a Phillies pitcher when I was in my late teens. I am talking about him as intimidating because he brought something to the mound that Farnsworth doesn't. It's not just the 100-MPH fastball, it's how he throws it. Coming from the left side, like Simon said, is a completely different animal than the right-side. Hearing "Enter Sandman" is probably frightening knowing soon a blistering fastball will be switched up with a viscous slider.

I am also not a Gagne fanboy. Any closer that compiled a Major League record for consecutive saves is a damn good pitcher. Rather intimidating I must say. When you read "Game Over" on the video board, you know that it is pretty much that. I agreed that Gagne wasn't as good today due to his injuries, that's why I said pre-injury Gagne.

Rivera was excellent early in his career in the post-season, but as soon as 2003 happened with the Marlins, and then 2004 with the Red Sox, things went downhill. He may be one of the best closers in the game, but I would not consider him truly intimidating.

That is all.

 

For left-handed hitters, pre-Stinnett, I might argue with you.

But I won't.