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Cliff Lee- Your AL Cy Young winner

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by prezclinton, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. Beef03

    Beef03 Active Member

    you got me.
     
  2. editorhoo

    editorhoo Member

    The Indians - one win from the AL pennant last year - had last year's Cy Young winner and this year's Cy Young winner on their roster and were out of contention by mid-May. Only in Cleveland.
     
  3. Oscar Gamble

    Oscar Gamble New Member

    Aramis Ramírez winning the 2008 NL Hank Aaron Award was worse than either of the above.
     
  4. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    What about Palmeiro winning a Gold Glove when he was the DH the entire season?
     
  5. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Yes, but the players deserve the blame for that one.
     
  6. BB Bobcat

    BB Bobcat Active Member

    Managers and coaches actually vote for the gold gloves.
     
  7. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    True. I deserve the blame for that one.
     
  8. forever_town

    forever_town Well-Known Member

    Considering 1) how shitty Cleveland was this year, PARTICULARLY after trading C.C. Sabathia, 2) how offense-laden the A.L. is and 3) how sterling Lee's numbers were pitching for a piss poor team, Roy Halladay shouldn't have gotten a single first-place vote for Cy Young.
     
  9. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    Hey, he played 28 games.
     
  10. Beef03

    Beef03 Active Member

    1) The quality of the rest of the pitching staff should have little impact on the Cy Young vote, Toronto had one of if not the worst offence in baseball for most of the league, had by far the worst batting avg. in the league when hitting with runners in scoring position. The first half TOs pitching carried them, in the second half they lost two of those pitchers to injury and they fell completely otu of the race at that point. 2)Halladay pitches in the same league. 3) Halladay didn't have that much better a team in front of him (see 1)). Halladay's run support was not much better, plus his numbers are not that far off of Lee's, some critical ones were even better:
    Halladay -- 20-11, 9CG, 2SO, 18 HR, 39 BB, 206K, 2.78 ERA, 1.053 WHIP
    Lee -- 22-3, 4CG, 2SO, 12 HR, 34 BB, 170K, 2.54 ERA, 1.110WHIP

    yes Lee deserved the Cy, but I do not think it is completely preposturous that Halladay got a few first place votes.
     
  11. BB Bobcat

    BB Bobcat Active Member

    As I wrote in my NL Cy Young analysis, I look at the Big Three factors for determining a Cy Young winner, and they aren't the big three you'd think...

    Winning percentage (After all, that's the name of the game.) Lee .815, Halladay .645. A big edge to Lee.
    ERA (Since the former is dependent on bullpen and run support, look at the pitchers real job, which is preventing runs). Lee 2.54, Halladay 2.78. Edge to Lee again.
    Opponents OBP (OK, the true, most basic test of how effectively a pitcher pitches is how often he gets out the batter that's in front of him. WHIP also works): Halladay .276, Lee .285. Edge to Halladay.

    Lee is the obviously the guy. But I can see how someone who values, say, complete games or strikeouts, might pick Halladay by a nose. I wouldn't, but it's a defensible position, I suppose.
     
  12. Beef03

    Beef03 Active Member

    I consider winning percentage an overrated stat for a pitcher, much like it is with goalies in hockey. He still needs offensive and defensive help in a win. when you have two pitchers with sub 3.00 ERAs and that big a differential in winning percentage to me that's almost a case in point. And to me that was Cliff Lee's biggest advantage in the stats.
    Again not trying to take anything away from the southpaw, just coming to Halladay's defence as some people acted as though it was completely unconscionable that anyone could have given Halladay the nod with a first place vote. They both had ridiculous seasons.
     
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