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Clemens Finally Sues

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Pete Incaviglia, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    [/quote]

    You can plead the 5th in any forum where you are questioned under oath, a criminal trial, a congressional hearing, a civil trial. So that is still open to Clemens. What I was pointing out is that since he started the lawsuit and is making a claim for damages as plaintiff, if he claims the 5th, his suit will be thrown out because you cannot make a claim for damages then turn around and deny the other side discovery by refusing to answer questions under oath in a deposition.
     
  2. broadway joe

    broadway joe Guest

    Random observations:

    During the course of the phone call, Clemens never inquires about or expresses any real interest in the health of McNamee's son, who apparently is very seriously ill and was the reason that McNamee got in touch with him.

    I find it odd that Clemens seemed far angrier at the media yesterday than he was during the conversation with McNamee, the guy who supposedly lied about him, trashed his reputation and is costing him a fortune in legal fees.

    Why would Clemens think that phone call would help his case when McNamee never indicated whether he lied or told the truth? McNamee's position, from that call, could easily be interpreted as, "I'm sorry I had to give you up, Roger, but it was either that or jail."

    McNamee's a weasel. He was clearly trying to get money out of Clemens, mentioning several times that he was broke, that he turned down a seven-figure offer for an interview, etc. Even with a sick child to pay for, it takes a lot of balls to try to squeeze cash out of the Rocket at this point, whether he told the truth about him or not.
     
  3. Philosopher

    Philosopher Member

    Think about how this would play out in a court of law for a minute. Clemens' statistics are offered as circumstantial evidence. A witness testifies about the atmosphere around baseball during the time that Clemens is alleged to have used steroids, about the members of the Yankees who have been alleged to have taken steroids/HGH, about the lack of testing in MLB during this period, etc.

    Then the government calls Andy Pettite to the stand. Pettite testifies that he's a close friend of Clemens, that he knew Clemens well, and that he used the same trainer as Clemens. Pettite says that the trainer was paid very well, was brought by Roger to Houston when he switched teams, and was extremely close to him and Clemens. Then he says that this trainer injected him in the ass with Human Growth Hormone 2-4 times.

    Then the government calls McNamee. He tells the same story as Pettite, in more detail. He talks at length about his relationship with Clemens, about how much Clemens did for him, etc. He talks about injecting Pettite, and probably recounts how Clemens introduced him to Pettite, etc. Then he talks about injecting Roger Clemens in the ass with steroids:

    Then the government would ask McNamee a series of questions about his arrest and plea agreement. He would tell the jury that his plea agreement requires him to tell the truth, and if he lies to them the deal will be nullified and he'll be screwed.

    Then the government would play him the tape of him talking to Clemens. McNamee testifies that Clemens is still a close friend, that he considered lying or not testifying to help Clemens, and that's what he felt like Clemens was pressuring him to do. Ultimately he decided to testify and tell the truth. On cross-examination, Clemens' attorney attacks McNamee using a statement that prosecutors pressured him to testify.

    Then the government would call a doctor as an expert witness. The doctor would testify that Lidocaine is used as an anesthetic, that it's a local anesthetic and wouldn't relieve joint pain from an injection in the ass, and that it is not available for use without a prescription. He would also testify that B-12 can be taken orally and is just as effective when taken that way as it is with an injection, and that there is no medical reason to take massive amounts of B-12.

    The government would also call Clemens' physician and the team physicians for the Blue Jays and Yankees, who would testify that they never issued Clemens a prescription for Lidocaine.

    Then the government would play segments from the 60 Minutes interview. Clemens won't testify (because he'd have to commit perjury or incriminate himself). So the government would play Clemens admitting that McNamee injected him in the ass, claiming that it was just Lidocaine and Vitamin B-12, and saying that he was so surprised that Pettite took HGH.

    Defense puts on witnesses who say that they've never seen Clemens take steroids, and that's about it.

    Closing Argument: The defendant admits that McNamee injected him in the ass. So the only issue for you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is -- What did McNamee inject him with? McNamee, a friend and close associate of Clemens, testified that it was steroids and HGH. He also says that he injected Pettite with HGH, in the same fashion, and Pettite corroborated his story. The prosecutor also argues that McNamee has a huge incentive to tell the truth.

    And what, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is Clemens' story? He claims that McNamee injected him with Lidocaine to "relieve his joint pain" and Vitamin B-12. Lidocaine is a local anesthetic that would only relieve pain in the local area. It's available in cream and patch form and would need to be applied to Clemens' joints, not his ass. Vitamin B-12 has no medical use in those quantities and could be taken orally. Moreover, Lidocaine is a prescription drug, and Clemens didn't have a prescription for it.

    I think that would be enough to convict Clemens in 2 out of 3 juries. And that's under a reasonable doubt standard. Most jurors would think his Vitamin B12 excuse to be complete bullshit. The guy admitted to getting injected in the ass, and he's not testifying. McNamee's testimony is bolstered by other facts, like the effacy of those drugs and Pettite's testimony.

    But this isn't a trial. No one has to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. When a criminal is sentenced, or when there is a civil lawsuit, the standard is much lower--preponderance of the evidence. Why should we, in our private discussions and decisions, give Clemens the benefit of a legal rule that is only applied in a very limited circumstance, namely criminal trials?

    It's pretty obvious Clemens took steroids. If I was, say, a HOF voter, I think this is more than enough evidence for me to consider that as a factor in voting for him.
     
  4. GB-Hack

    GB-Hack Active Member

    That is really well layed out. Excellent work sir.
     
  5. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    I bet there are more than two people who know the truth.

    Andy Pettitte, for example, could probably shed some light.

    If you're Pettitte right now, how sick are you about all this? Torn between the telling the truth and divulging a friend's secrets. Being the religious man he is, I'm sure he's turning to the Bible for help, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

    I wonder if the good book has any wisdom on a pickle like this.
     
  6. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    Regardless of whether Clemens took steroids or not, you know he's sleazy.

    Ask yourself what happens when McNamee's son gets wind of that phone call recording.

    "Daddy, I'm dying?"
     
  7. Philosopher

    Philosopher Member

    This should be interesting:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=3189255

    Expect the depositions to contain a lot of the testimony that I previewed in my post above. Clemens is in for some rocky times ahead, I think.
     
  8. sportschick

    sportschick Active Member

    Story about IRS agent Jeff Novitzky and his involvment in the case. I found it interesting and I thought he worked for the FBI.
     
  9. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    i'm not ashamed to admit your side saddle arouses me.
     
  10. Screwball

    Screwball Active Member

    He might be a weasel, but I totally disagree that he was trying to get money out of Clemens. That's the spin Rusty Hardin kept trying to get reporters to bite on, but I didn't hear anything on the tape that led me to that conclusion.

    McNamee is clearly distraught that he betrayed Clemens, but he had to, or else. He says as much on the tape. He'd like to do something--anything--to get back in Clemens' good graces. That's why he keeps saying, "What do you want me to do?" He never says, "What can you do for me?"
     
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