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Buh . . . but . . . I thought Michael Moore didn't care about profits!

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Piotr Rasputin, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    This. The unspecified "they" is my favorite lazy strawman technique. I can't recall ever seeing anyone on this site or elsewhere state that Moore doesn't care about profits, so who exactly are the "they" saying this shit?

    Moore might be a greedy douchebag, I couldn't care less, I just know that he's produced some very ballsy, provocative and high quality work in both Sicko and Fahrenheit, films that helped spark national discussion of extremely important issues. Any film that gets people thinking about important things instead of reality show/celebrity gossip type bullshit is worthwhile in my book. If his motive was personal profit, fine by me. The work speaks for itself.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    brit, You nailed it. Easy enough to hate Michael Moore. But when it comes to business practices, when it's between Michael Moore and the Weinsteins, the only question is, how didn't anyone see this coming? The Weinsteins as bastards and when it comes to a buck, they don't give it up easily.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Disagree with about Moore producing films that spark national discussions. His M.O. is to wait for topics that have already become controversial and then make films with cherry-picked facts that take the populist point of view. Issues like 9/11 and health care were long in the public discussion before Michael Moore figured out how to profit from them. The object? To personally profit from those issues by cherry picking facts and outright distorting them to get people into a lather. Hopefully, with Capitalism: A Love Story, which bombed after he saw the financial meltdown as an area to try, the rest he is giving his act will become a permanent rest.
     
  4. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Michael Moore is a bigger hypocrite than Bono but his movies are pretty dam funny. Roger and Me still one of my favs in the business genre.
     
  5. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    This is ahistorical nonsense. Moore's films actually have quite an impressive record for being ahead of the national debate curve.

    Roger and Me sounded the alarms about the devastating effects corporate outsourcing and globalization would have on the middle class and industrial Midwest well before anyone in the mainstream was discussing it, indeed before terms like outsourcing had even been coined yet. I can personally say that film was the first time I ever saw anybody address those issues.

    When Fahrenheit was released, the country was still in its ultra-patriotic cheerleading phase on the Iraq War and the mainstream media was still afraid to publically criticize it. The few people criticizing the war at that point were widely percieved as unpatriotic radical kooks. But a couple years later everyone was bashing the war. Moore's film came first and helped make it acceptable to do so.

    When Sicko was released health care reform was on the political backburner. A year later it had leaped to the forefront and become the issue everyone was talking about. Once again, Moore beat them to it and helped spark the debate.
     
  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    JR, he is never wrong. Just ask him. Discussions are not a two-way street.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Roger and Me does not fit the bill I described, but Michael Moore was an unknown filmmaker then.

    Since then, there is nothing ahistorical or nonsensical about what I said, as you so eloquently put it.

    You just conceded it, in fact.

    When Fahrenheit was released, the war in Iraq was indeed not something we needed Michael Moore to stir a national debate over. And it's hardly like there weren't people against the war, or that the tide wasn't already turning in terms of sentiment -- or that it wasn't going to without Michael Moore's half truths and outright falsehoods (which always struck me as odd, because if he wanted to make a film critical of the Bush administration he could have done it pretty straight. Instead he had to push it into wtf territory).

    When Sicko came out, it likewise didn't do much to stir any debate that hadn't existed for years. Health care was in the news, not on some backburner, because the cost was sky rocketing. Which is why it was such a plum topic for a guy who makes skewed populist films about those kinds of issues. Sound horns, find a lot of boogymen, and edit it the right way, and people eat the bullshit up. It's not like Obama relied on Michael Moore to make it his issue, either. Michael Moore wasn't ahead of the curve. He follows the curve. He just picked something that was on people's radars, sensationalized it and capitalized on it for his profit.

    It's a formula that works, because if he chose issues and played them straight and honestly, it wouldn't do the controversy that gets people out. So he goes all Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olberman -- except with films -- because he knows that the more controversial he plays it (even if it isn't really true), the more of a reaction he's going to get.

    And none of this addresses Michael Moore as a person. What I wrote about his treatment of writers -- and the staff, actually -- on TV Nation is true, and from what I understand indicative of the man.

    You might want to reconsider who is being ahistorical. The guy capitalizes on populist causes, stirs the pot and tries to profit from them. It's who he is.
     
  8. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    How the heck did you get to be a moderator, Ragu?
     
  9. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    This description fits dozens and dozens of people in popular media, not just Michael Moore.
     
  10. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    High WORP (Words Over Replacement Poster)
     
  11. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    What's more unlikely in the world of SportsJournalists.com, circa Feb. 2011?

    1. Mubarak quits.
    2. Doyell is made to be a sympathetic character.
    3. The Weinsteins are made to be sympathetic.

    Indeed a crazy world we live in!
     
  12. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Very well played
     
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