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Brexit or how I'll make a killing in forex

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by JohnHammond, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Vombatus

    Vombatus Well-Known Member

    Tear down some castles for more farmland?
     
  2. JohnHammond

    JohnHammond Well-Known Member

    Ragu, I'm sorry, but you're not a political theorist. How you think the economic system should run has never occurred as long as homo sapiens have been around.
     
  3. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    The common market is the biggest free-market experiment in history, imposing the least restrictions ever on capital, labor, goods and services over a huge swathe of Europe.

    Sure, these subsidies exist but they'd exist if the EU was there or not. To imply it's some sort of socialistic house of cards misses the point.
     
  4. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    This is absolutely wrong.
     
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    There has never been and there never will be a normally distributed variable. Doesn't mean the normal distribution isn't somewhat useful ...
     
  6. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    How? And how aren't the "Four Freedoms" of the European Single Market (the free movement of goods, capitals, services and people) not a capitalist's wet dream?
     
  7. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Because the production and pricing of those goods, capital, services, etc. are overseen to a minute degree by planners in Brussels.
     
  8. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    Eh. The EU has anti-trust regulations but so does pretty much every other country in the world. Yes, you also have an extra layer of regulation but when you're trying to streamline the national markets of 28 different countries (more if you count folks like Norway and Switzerland) into one huge one, there's going to be some paperwork involved.

    The huge bulk of the British business community didn't come out for the Remain side because they're all closet-socialists. They did it because the EU gives them a lot more freedom to make money.
     
  9. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I'm not talking about "trying to streamline the national markets of 28 different countries" ... I'm talking about a superstate under which anything and everything can be brought to heel in the name of "greater" union. And for rent-seekers, such a climate is a bonanza: If I have to choose between: A) lobbying two dozen governments of varying responsiveness to their constituencies; or B) co-opting an un-elected (and therefore largely unaccountable) regulatory behemoth, I'm going to choose B every time.

    The EU may be many things, but an earnest attempt at effecting free trade? No way ...
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    This notion that the European Union has been the biggest "free market" experiment in history requires an absolute perversion of language. It's exactly what I was saying about the arsonist being the fire fighter.

    The EU may be a big experiment of some sort, but it is not a free trade experiment. Free trade is not a complicated notion. I can write a free trade agreement on the back of a matchbook cover. The EU is a mess.

    An actual union of countries with a basis in free trade, would mean governments stepping aside -- not creating a huge bureaucracy that arbitrarily governs over everything, and regulates everyone to a ludicrous extreme from the top down. That is the EU.

    An actual free trade union would leave people to make decisions for themselves and do business with whomever they want with minimal restrictions. It's not a complicated notion. You would be free. Not living under the rules made by some out-of-touch paternalistic dreamers that take your decisions away from you. There would be no tariffs. No ridiculous subsidies that hurt some to benefit others. People simply wouldn't be handcuffed, and they could live their own lives making decisions that best benefit their own circumstances. The way all of us do when we are left alone. If it was a free trade union, parties (as in individuals) would do business with whomever they find it most beneficial to deal with, setting the terms themselves.

    The EU has been close to the EXACT opposite of that. And over time, the hubris of the people behind it turned it into a bigger and bigger mess, creating a mountain of economic problems as they tried to micromanage everyone's behavior from the top down.

    It didn't matter if Britain left, or if others leave. Just with the debt mess they have created across Europe, by setting the parameters for fiscal recklessness, it has been a slow-motion train crash anyhow. If it was really about free trade, they would step aside and truly leave people alone to live their lives.
     
  11. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    I think the reality on the ground is a bit different than seen from across the ocean. The British automobile industry, the financial sector, the Confederation of British Industry, they all love the European Single Market. Why? Because there are no tariffs and remarkably few barriers to trade.

    As far as freedom is concerned, well, I can pick up sticks tomorrow and move to Rome. Or Berlin. The only hurdle for me is the language. No hassles about visas. No worries that I'll be kicked out. I can get a job I want or, if I start a business, I can trade with more than a couple dozen other countries.

    But hey, I hear the economy is doing pretty good in Canada right now. When's the move to Toronto?
     
  12. JohnHammond

    JohnHammond Well-Known Member

    It's a great thought experiment to forecast how the future would play out if Ragu's economic vision were implemented, but having it play out that way is far from being as certain as some libertarian utopianists believe.
     
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