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Boom's Hummers might be gone after today

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by poindexter, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    Law of unintended consequences had a hand in it, too.

    20-25 years ago, the typical "family car" was the station wagon. Had tons of cargo room, could easily hold a family of 5 (or more), ugly as hell but they were somewhat practical. However, the larger surface area made them less fuel-efficient. That, and the Big Three each had a V8 sedan that was a big seller to families (we had a Delta 88 that seated six, but got about three gallons to the mile).

    The SUV existed, but as a work vehicle. I remember when my dad had a 1980s-model Blazer and the thing felt like I was driving a big rig. The last thing you'd want to do is take the kids to Wal-Mart in that POS.

    When the CAFE standards were tightened to 27.5 mpg for *cars* in the late 1980s (and then finally permanently in 1990), one easy way to get around it was to begin to phase out (and downplay) the station wagon & get rid of the big V8 sedans. Meanwhile, "light trucks" (which includes SUVs) are held to a different standard (currently 20.7 mpg) and therefore the SUV could more easily meet the standards.

    Throw in cheap gas & the suburban mommy's desire for perceived safety (bigger = better), and the SUV boom was born. Then, we have a "keep up with the Joneses" mindset and the idea that cars = status, and the SUV was an easy way to convey status. The bigger, the better.

    The Big Three made their living selling such cars and essentially ceded the small passenger car lines to Honda & Toyota (the Big Three have never done small cars well -- they were behind the curve during the 1970s oil crisis, giving Honda & Toyota a foot in the door, and kept marketing big cars & trucks ever since).

    However, the free market always trumps the law of unintended consequences. People who used to buy big cars & wagons now bought bigger, less-efficient trucks. And, on the flip side, when gas hit $4/gallon, the Prius replaced the Chevy Subdivision as the car of choice, and there is no market for big cars & trucks anymore (and the SUV essentially replaced the V8 sedan & station wagon as the "big car.") and GM/Ford/Chrysler again got caught with their pants down.
     
  2. OTD

    OTD Well-Known Member

    One reason for that is that one of the first things Bush pushed through was a tax exemptions for "businesses" that bought trucks over that limit. H2s, Suburbans and Excursions were the only SUVs that met this, so they were going like crazy.

    Keep in mind also that back then, if you had a bunch of kids, you could let them sit in the back of a station wagon or cram a bunch in the back seat of the Olds 98 without seatbelts. We regularly had eight or nine kids in our station wagon on Scout trips and the like. Now, each person must be belted in, which if you're ever transporting a bunch of kids, you're forced into an eight- or nine-passenger behemoth.
     
  3. lono

    lono Active Member

    No one is forced into a behemoth.

    There are all manner of alternatives — minivans, crossovers and medium-sized SUVs.

    Hummer H2S are horrendously space inefficient, which is one of the arguments against them.
     
  4. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    Which is also why nobody is buying them.

    Viva the free market.
     
  5. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but history has already told us that the "We know better" lefties will never do either.

    The lefty hate of SUVs is pretty much the same as the lefty hate of WalMart. Some activists told them to hate it, so being lemmings, they do.
     
  6. CM Punk

    CM Punk Guest

    If it dies because the market doesn't support it, fine. But don't start all this bullshit about government regulations and laws and taxes and special licenses for a fucking SUV. That's all it is. Sure, let the government do that and keep the gate open for more laws and taxes and regulations. Those in power love that shit. They get to control us just a little more with every minor outrage of ultimately inconsequential bullshit like who you think should get to drive a large SUV.

    We need less government, not more. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
     
  7. Beef03

    Beef03 Active Member

    The thing is, they wouldn't have been making them if there wasn't a market for them, and the market for the SUV and big truck was booming until about 2 years ago. There was little reason for the big three to think differently if the big SUV was still their big seller with little end in sight.

    And then gas jumped in a matter of months to rediculous heights. So yeah the Big 3 got caught with their pants down. The thing is it takes time to recover from something like that. It takes years for a car to go from concept to the dealer. Hell the Chevy Volt which has seen plenty of air time over the last 6-12 months wont even be available until the 2010 models start rolling out. Which is why Chrysler is trying to pony up with Fiat, so they can take advantage of their small platform and speed up the process of small car development.

    And Hummer was far from the only offender (and yeah they are a status symbol for many, instead of going out and buying that Jag or BMW they started buying these behemoths which became more homoginized by the year IMO). Hell a buddy of mine drives a new (I think it's a 2007 or 08) F350 for work and gets about 8 mpg. But you see plenty of them (or the Chev, Dodge, GMC, or Toyota equivilant) on the road and they aren't all fleet vehicles.

    And the recent push for high MPG cars has far less to do with saving the environment and far more to do with when gas prices hit (up here anyways) $1.50-$2 a litre. Now that gas is back down to about 85 cents, there isn't near the push as there was recently and car dealarships (beit the big three or Toyota or Honda) are filling back up with the big shinny new trucks and SUVs. Even if Hummer sales are way off for this quarter -- they are a luxury expendature and instead of spending $60-75k on a hummer those with borderline money in a shit economy will buy the less expensive SUV or truck. Over the next quarter or two I will be interested to see what happens to the numbers for suv and truck sales. If gas stays where it is or drops lower you'll see their sales rebound somewhat -- maybe not to previous heights, but they will comeback.

    In Canada last year, I believe Chrysler still sold more vehicles than any other manufacturer. And I'm certain it wasn't because everyone was rushing out to buy a Calibre or Journey.

    Their biggest issues, as far as my understanding runs, deals with outdated facilities, too much buracracy, a saturated market spread out over too many badges per company, and cost of labour. Chrysler Canada pays on average $75 an hour for labour (I believe that is what I read, oh and that includes pay, benefits, etc., etc.) in their current deal with the CAW. And no I'm not arguing against unions, but something has to be fixed in that scenario. An adjustment has to be made to all levels. If that means losing divisons like say Hummer, Mercury and Pontiac (just throwing those out there but substitute whatever badge you want), so beit.
     
  8. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    Conceptually I like the Volt, though I think its body design is ugly as hell. But just like with CD players and hi-def TVs, the first ones will be mighty expensive until the economy of scale makes them more widely affordable (and in my view, cost effective).

    Will it save GM in the short term? Of course not. Might it in the long term? Yes. But "long term" and "GM" seem to be mutually exclusive items at the moment.
     
  9. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    I hate because they're always slower in my lane than anyone else. If those drivers would get their heads out of their asses and get outta my way, there would be less hate. :)
     
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