Bobby Grich should be in the Hall of Fame

the very second bill james realized bill mazeroski was the best fucking second baseman in the history of the game ...

 

I love it.

 

I thought he was a LW on St.Louis in the early 80's.

 

He's definitely in the SportsJournalists.com's Hall of Pretty Good.

So, Deion Sanders' isn't HOF-worthy? He didn't tackle anyone in the last five years or so of his career.

 

Comparing Youkilis to Ichiro is hampered by the fact they have different jobs. One's a leadoff hitter, the other a middle of the lineup guy. IF, and I think it's a big if, Youkilis continues to hit 30 homers a year, he can be mentioned in comparison to Ichiro without laughter.
Ichiro's getting long in the tooth. But take the 2001-2002 model, and if the Sox offered to trade Youkilis for him straight up, the answer would have been "Sure, if you throw in Papelbon or Lester. Make that Papelbon AND Lester."

 

Everyone has the same job, not matter your position or spot in the order: Get on base and don't make outs. And if you have power as well, so much the better. But saying that RBIs are a defining stat, knowing what we know now about lineup placement and RBI rates, is silly. And batting average by itself? Ichiro is a fun player to watch, but he made 492 outs in 2008.

 

Well said.

 

All stats are defining stats. The issue is what they define. A player with a lot of RBI is a player who's a good enough hitter to bat in a place where he's supposed to drive in teammates. That means he's a good hitter. It doesn't make RBI the most accurate or precise measurement, but it does mean RBI offer an approximation of a hitter's performance in doing what his team expects him to do.
Ichiro is fun to watch because he is a Hall of Fame player. He has many skills that win games. Denigrating him as making too many outs is the same foolishness as spnited's hatred of new stats, just from the other end of the telescope.
Ask people who earn their living from evaluating baseball the value of Ichiro in his prime (first years in the States).

 

I completely disagree with your first sentence. Just ask Jay Bell during his playing days with the Pirates under Jim Leyland.