Billy Wagner HOF?

Both the statistical and the anecdotal evidence suggest otherwise.

 

Billy Wagner: Hall of Fame?
No.
Just another of the many, many solid players who wasn't "great."

 

Unless the statistic is saves, I guess. You might think that saves are a meaningless statistic. But the majority of the public doesn't care about ERA+. They don't even care about a half-run difference in straight ERA.

They do care about someone who is the all-time record holder in saves. You asked whether Wagner would be in the Hall of Fame. My answer is still a huge no. But Hoffman does make it in.

Wagner was a great closer for 7-9 seasons. Hoffman notched 30 or more saves for 14 straight seasons. Hoffman also benefits from spending the bulk of his career with one team. Wagner jumped around a lot. I doubt Houston fans think of him as an Astro. This matters. Voters reflect public sentiment. Perhaps they shouldn't. But they do.

 

Rivera and Hoffman will be the only closers of the last 20 years to make it (unless you count Smoltz, who I think will get in).

 

No, it really doesn't.

 

No. It's as simple as that.

 

Huh?

 

For his next thread, he's going to start Todd Jones, HOF?

 

Eckersley and Smoltz moving successfully to the closer's role after being starters is going to hurt the cases for most closers, who spend their entire careers there. The thinking can be, "Can't go the distance anymore, move them to the pen."

It won't impact Rivera and hopefully not Hoffman, but it changes the way voters look at Lee Smith, Jeff Reardon, Wagner and other closers.

 

And in your next reply you'll make an ass out of yourself like you always do.

 

I think that attitude was in place long before Eckersley and Smoltz became closers. It is part of why the voters are so hard on closers. If anything, guys like Hoffman, Wagner and Rivera might have helped to change it because they were never starters at the major-league level (though I know Wagner and Rivera started in the minors).

 

That time of the month for you, Mr. Sensitive?