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Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    We're failing the kids who actually could escape the cycle of poverty:

  2. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    You mean the bullshit that rich parents tell themselves about how wonderful they are at opening doors for everybody is just that, bullshit?

    Next you'll tell me private high schools don't have a lot of poor kids either, except for the football and basketball teams.

    As to what's behind it, I'd say most colleges these days would rather have the freight-payers.
  3. Mystery Meat II

    Mystery Meat II Well-Known Member

    Unless you're definitely going to get a full ride, you're not likely to think about going to a higher-end (and higher-priced) school. Not that I would ever be considered a high achiever in anything other than blood pressure, but it never occurred to me to seriously consider private or out-of-state colleges in high school. How in hell was I going to pay for it?

    Another, harder-to-quantify factor that I can only offer up via observation of friends I had that WERE high achievers from a non-wealthy family -- kids from lower-income households often don't have the opportunities to go places when they're young, and the closer they stay to their home in those years, the more likely they're going to want to stay there after they graduate high school. And if your main support is heavily or exclusively family, then you're likely to want to stay near them, either consciously or sub-consciously.

    I don't think there's an easy answer here. Is there something that these schools should be doing that they're not? Is there going to be a natural ceiling for outreach efforts because of factors nobody can institutionally overcome? Like with most things, it's a lot more complicated issue than many of us will acknowledge.
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but they're not even applying and have never even "heard of Bowdoin College".

    And, they don't know financial aid and scholarships are available.

    There's a pack mentality. And, in certain communities, where no one attends college, it doesn't even occur to kids that it's an option. They don't know their potential. No one has encouraged them.

    I've seen it on a different level in my own extended family. My cousins who grew up in Buffalo have mostly attended college, but they don't aspire to anything better than Buff State or SUNY Geneseo.
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    There was a news story out here last year that, because of low-income outreach programs, Harvard costs less than state universities in California. I imagine it's a similar story throughout the Ivies.

    But you're right, most people in that group wouldn't know it. That could also be a result of the stripping away of counseling services at public high schools. In many places the only counselors you'll find are crisis/intervention types and the school offers no academic guidance.
  6. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    Yup. The lack of counselors at low income schools is disturbing. Those are the schools that should have the most counselors.
  7. Harvard meets the financial need of students without loans. Families making under $65,000 per year don't have to pay anything towards their kid's education at Harvard.
  8. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I think the overall impact went beyond that and into higher incomes -- but yeah, OK, the below $65K kids are exactly who we're talking about.
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    You also have to take into consideration the acceptance rates of these schools. Bowdoin's is 16 percent.


    Harvard's is not even 6 percent.


    Some talented kids see that, and they figure, why bother? They figure they'll have a better chance of getting into Buffalo State (42 percent) or Geneseo (43 percent).

    Plus, poorer schools don't have as many activities that kids can put on their application, unlike wealthier schools. Activities that the elite schools want to see on their applications.
  10. Smart and talented poor kids should just accept that they need to aim for community college. Not much difference, right?

    (As a community college instructor, they serve an important purpose, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking they offer the same experience and services like an Ivy League or flagship public university.)
  11. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    In related news:

    —Stuyvesant offered admission to 9 black students; 24 Latino students; 177 white students; and 620 students who identify as Asian.

    —Bronx Science offered admission to 25 black students; 54 Latino students; 239 white students; 489 Asian students; and 3 American Indian/Alaskan Native students.

    —Brooklyn Tech offered admission to 110 black students; 134 Latino students; 451 white students; 960 Asian students; and 5 American Indian/Alaskan Native students.

  12. waterytart

    waterytart Active Member

    I think Meat is right about layers of complications.

    "who's ever heard of Bowdoin College?" Why would poor kids in the rural South or Midwestern inner cities have heard of it? Or Amherst or Williams or Swarthmore? When they hear people refer to an elite school, it's Harvard or Yale, or maybe Stanford if they're on the West coast.

    Good students from upper-middle-class families will apply to several "Amhersts" and a couple of Ivies. Just those application fees are an obstacle for poor kids.

    This isn't going to be solved with a feel-good outreach program.
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