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Bernie Sanders calls for wealth tax

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    The 10% surtax on $1 billion+ estates sounds pretty radical to me. But it's not going to happen, so no sense getting in a lather about it.

    What I find comical is the degree to which people think if you sock the right 400 people with the right tax bill, we'll all somehow be more equal (and better off).
     
  2. Amy

    Amy Well-Known Member

    I didn't spend much time looking for his proposal so missed any surtax. I don't see any difference between setting higher rates or calling something a surtax at $1 b, nor do I think having graduated rates radical. I agree, though, it's not going to happen.

    Damn those rich people who took advantage of the statutory loophole and died in 2010.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    When looking for places to fund all of the spending, we do love dead people, don't we? They don't protest the way everyone else does when you take their stuff.

    They are still taxing those people twice -- once when they earned it and again when they give it away (if they were dumb enough to wait until death. ... and they are not). The net result of a punitive estate tax is a law that benefits tax lawyers. As far as allocating capital, it is extremely wasteful. Rather than leaving people to make decisions with their own money, which conceivably ends up with capital allocated to investment that can help to make the world a better place. ... we create incentives for people to pay accountants and lawyers and insurance companies to structure tax havens. It's backward ass and a waste.

    IMO, it's also wrong to tell people they are going to be punished for sharing the fruits of their labor or luck (or whatever) the way THEY choose to (as much as we all know that taxing it ensures that it will be spent more wisely by the Treasury).
     
  4. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    0.25 percent of households is about 250,000 households. 1 percent is 1,000,000. That would be a good amount of money, certainly comparable to the amounts bandied about in discussions of ending welfare, which is only the biggest government expenditure EVER according to the GOP.

    It's new money too that doesn't detract from economic activity, because it's the portion that's permanently on the sidelines anyway.
     
  5. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    A great way to govern would be this: Require Bernie Sanders to elicit at least one proposal a week ... and then have exactly the opposite enacted.
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Hate to tell you this, buddy, but you're working a Baron_Scicluna/93Devil play here. Spin counterclockwise three times and throw a pinch of cayenne pepper over your left shoulder. There's still a chance to nip the infection in the bud.
     
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Ha. I miss Devil.

    But savings doesn't come in. People park money in mutual funds and such, not new investment, especially with capital gains rates being what they are.
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    When you "park" your money in, say a stock mutual fund, what do you think happens to that money?
     
  9. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    It's not one or the other. It's the higher rates AND the surtax. So if you have a $1b+ estate, you calculate your taxes at the new higher rates, then multiply that amount by 1.1. Last surtax I can remember is the one LBJ muscled through to help pay for his Vietnam escapades.
     
  10. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    It's mostly just traded around the world like football bets. But anything that goes to the company is applied directly to corporate profits, which are of course quite easy to goose by announcing job cuts and other spending rollbacks.
     
  11. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Seriously, step back and think about it. You don't really believe that estates involve wealth that is just sitting idle, do you? Wealth, capital, doesn't sit idle. The $40 to $50 bucks I have in my change bowl on my dresser is idle, true. But invested money is never, NEVER, "on the sidelines."


    No, no, no ... If I "invest" $100 in that company -- let's say I go to that company and buy a share of stock directly from it -- that absolutely does not apply to corporate profits. The balance sheet will show an increase in assets (on the left side) and a corresponding increase in liabilities/owners' equity (on the right side). There will be absolutely no income statement effect.

    Seriously ... spin three times, then go with the cayenne.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not sure what that means. Anything of what that goes to what company? The mutual fund company? A stock the mutual fund is investing in? . ... Because your mutual fund investment has zero impact on the earnings of any of the companies in the fund's portfolio. In fact, it's the opposite. The earnings typically have an impact on the share price.

    Most people investing in stock mutual funds are hoping for a return on their investment via capital gains and dividends. They aren't "parking" the money. They are investing it for a return on their investment. Mutual fund managers typically look for growing companies (that are valued in a way they believe is fair). Companies that consistently grow (and reward investors) alllocate their capital well -- and the best way to do that has always been to create new investment that fuels continued growth. Corporate earnings have always been what most reliably creates stock capital appreciation and/or dividends over the long term. I am not aware of any company that has who has ever achieved long-term corporate earnings growth by gutting its business. You can not sustain earnings growth that way for a long period of time -- unless it is some kind of extreme automation story that means your businesses require less human capital than it used to. In which case you have just created new goods and services and growth while freeing up human labor to do new things, which has the potential to lead to rises in standard of living.

    The "profits are achieved by goosing things through layoffs and spending cuts" is not a formula that rewards shareholders over any long-term period of time -- the way companies such as Coca Cola or P&G or Apple or Merck or ConocoPhilips, etc. have, when you go back decades. When they have to lay off people, barring it being an automation story, it typically means something isn't working. If you have a good stock mutual fund manager, and a company is laying people off because something is failing, it should get his attention, because eventually that is going to be bad for any stock price if they can't fix the problem and start growing again. ... and he makes his management fee by attracting mutual fund investors based on his track record of picking stocks that appreciate.
     
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