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Belichick For Pro Football HOF?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Boom_70, Sep 14, 2007.

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Should Videogate keep Belichick from being inducted to HOF?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  1. RokSki

    RokSki New Member

    I totally agree.

    I feel Belichick deserves a "Pete Rose" here as regards the HOF.

    Even the most cynical Bonds haters won't argue that Bonds did PED's his whole career. Conversely, one of Belichick's former Browns assistants has said this type of (videotaped?) against-the-rules sign-stealing was going on back in Belichick's forgettable tenure as Cleveland's head coach. In other words, we now have apparently credible cheating 'bookends' to Quasimodo's head coaching legacy. That's not a slippery slope -- it's a sheer, vertical free-fall.

    If Goodell really wants to kick tail and take names (a point which seems in doubt given his inability to suspend Belichick), instituting -- or leaning on those in a position to institute -- a kind of "Pro Bowl 'Merriman Rule'" for the Hall of Fame would be an excellent step. The rule would only punish those who were determined to have cheated, and were subsequently penalized, by the league itself.

    Such a rule would almost certainly drastically reduce the cheating which goes on today. Such a rule would also allow the league to prevent such persons as the felonious Eddie DeBartolo, Jr. from ever gracing its most-revered shrine (DeBartolo was the owner of the 'Niners when they were busted for salary cap violations during Paul Tagliabue's watch).

    I like the idea -- such a rule would serve as a kind of ultimate deterrent to 'white-collar,' management-level NFL cheating. No doubt many other considerations would need to be taken into account, but any rule which could keep dirtbags like Belichick and DeBartolo out of the HOF certainly seems one worth consideration.
     
  2. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    BB - Should Mark McGwire be voted into Baseball Hall of Fame?
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    What McGwire did had way more impact on his ability to hit home runs than the impact of a guy videotaping defensive signals on an NFL sideline. You might as well compare misdemeanors and felonies and not make distinctions when it comes to crime.

    Also, Teams are pretty keen to the kind of shit Belichick was pulling. If you don't have four guys on the sideline relaying signals in and you are not mixing up the go to guy, you are not doing your job. What Belichick did was wrong, but it takes away very little from what his teams accomplished.

    This will be a blip. It will get a couple of weeks of press, and ultimately be forgotten. Far bigger things than this that have tainted sports have gotten forgotten.
     
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Nobody is questioning his credentials when you go purely on what has happened on the field. It's a matter of how many people consider him a cheat after this. Though I don't think this will keep him out, nor should it.

    I do agree that it is naive to think this was a new thing. Given the history and what just happened, I believe every rumor I've ever heard about the Pats breaking and bending rules. If you're willing to cheat after being specifically told not to do that exact thing, you're willing to do anything to win.
     
  5. Duane Postum

    Duane Postum Member

    Gotta agree with this. I can't see the big deal.
     
  6. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    What did McGwire do that was against MLB rules at the time?
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    He used performance-enhancing drugs (at least it is a fair assumption that he did). They were banned from baseball in 1991 in a memo to every ball club from Fay Vincent that stated baseball's policy to what was an emerging problem. The policy was reiterated by Bud Selig in 1997.

    Aside from all the parsing about "was it technically against rules" (and yes, it was)--when did everyone in the world decide you need a law degree to decide common sense things?--McGwire (and others) knew that steroids were not accepted by baseball and that it was considered verboten by fans, executives, other players (oh, and the law. Steroids are illegal). It's why he used the drugs surreptitiously, has lied about his usage in the past and to this day is hiding from scrutiny rather than coming clean about what he did.
     
  8. jgmacg

    jgmacg Guest

    How much of the overreaction here is simple schadenfreude? People hate Belichik, ergo this is the worst thing ever to happen in pro football. An NFL coach eliding the rules for a competitive advantage? Shocking!
     
  9. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Everything is speculation with McGwire - Everything with Belichick is fact.

    I also think you could make a pretty good argument on idea that what Belichick did could have greater outcome on game results than what McGwire allegedly did.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    A great deal of it is. In the NFL, there is a culture of "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." Belichick is not alone. Maybe he personifies it more than others, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is more blatant about it, but this is football, it isn't croquet. It's a sport where players will grab a guy's nutsack at the bottom of a pile in a scrum for a fumble. Trying to steal signals not only isn't the worst thing to ever happen in pro football, the advantage you can gain from it isn't even close to the advantages gained from far more egregious things that happen every Sunday.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Speculation about McGwire, but not reached by mere conjecture. His name didn't get pulled out of a hat. Unless you are waiting for a photo of him sticking himself with a needle, you might as well believe in Santa Claus if you don't believe with firm conviction that McGwire used artificial means to bulk up and increase his home-run hitting prowess.

    I am not sure about game results... I think Mark McGwire impacted his own stats more than he made differences in games. Over the course of a season, even a guy hitting 20 or 25 more home runs than he might have hit, and driving in X more runs than he might have, is only going to impact a handful of games in terms of wins and losses. Stealing defensive signals could have a good impact on an NFL game, but it is a big leap from a guy videotaping the opposing sideline to 1) them actually having the defensive signals (teams disguise this stuff and have decoys), 2) them being able to relay info into the QB and him being able to audible or exploit the defense--particularly because NFL defenses are sophisticated and they frequently audible, as well.

    This video tape guy probably impacted very little in actual games. If teams know this is who they are playing, they have multiple guys relaying phony signals in and they are disguising things like crazy.
     
  12. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I think people inside and outside the league want to see Coach Hoodie go down. Obviously, he's not my favorite person out there, or I wouldn't keep calling him Coach Hoodie. I respect him and the Patriots, but I don't like them.

    It doesn't change the fact that this is a matter of disrespecting the commissioner's office and the rest of the league. They had to know it was likely that they would get caught. They just assumed they would get away with it again.

    As far as the specific act, I have a bigger problem with the part about messing with teams headphones during their home games than the videotaping.
     
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