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Baseball scoring question

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Smash Williams, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Smash Williams

    Smash Williams Well-Known Member

    There's a guy on third with no outs.

    Guy at the plate swings and misses for a third strike (low but not in the dirt), but the catcher boots it about 10 feet behind home plate. Both runners take off. The catcher gets the ball and throws to the pitcher, who gets the guy coming home. The batter gets to first safely.

    Now you have one out with a runner on first. Next guy up hits a single, and the next guy hits a home run to left.

    Okay, so the original guy on third is out on a 2-1 caught stealing. But how does the guy on first reach? I originally scored it a K-passed ball, but the more I think about it, the more I want to call it a K-fielders choice since an out was recorded on the play.

    The difference, as far as I'm aware, is that if the guy reaches on a fielder's choice, the run is earned. If it's a passed ball, it's unearned. It doesn't make a difference to the box, and I don't keep season ERA for this particular team. I'm just curious.

    I've talked to the local college coach and scorekeeper and two of my coworkers. So far, the vote is split 2-2. The local college coach thinks it's a PB since you can't assume the out at first, but don't you always assume an out at first on a fielder's choice?

    Edited to fix spelling. Thanks spnited.
  2. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Member

    I'd score it as a passed ball, and the run is unearned. I don't see how you could score it as a fielder's choice, but maybe I'm wrong. That's a good one. I'm sure opinions will vary.

    EDIT: It's way too late to try to read (and understand) the baseball rulebook, but here's something that might help.....

    When the catcher recovers the ball after a wild pitch or passed ball on the third strike, and throws out the batter-runner at first base, or tags out the batter-runner, but another runner or runners advance, the official scorer shall score the strikeout, the putout and assists, if any, and credit the advance of the other runner or runners on the play as a fielder’s choice.

    I'm not sure I'm seeing the exact situation you are referring to, but this is somewhat close.
  3. GBNF

    GBNF Active Member

    Passed ball, run unearned.
  4. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    Passed (not PAST) ball.
  5. BH33

    BH33 Member

    My vote would be K-fielder's choice. If the catcher catches the ball, it's a strikeout, and following the single and home run, the team has 3 runs - all earned. In the case that you mentioned, the team still ends up with 3 runs, and all three should be earned.

    In the original play of the dropped third strike, getting the runner at home should negate the potential of the unearned run.

    That's just my guess, though. That's a pretty rare situation.
  6. i would think the run is earned no matter what. if you reconstruct the inning without the PB, they're still going to score three runs. so K-fielder's choice, all three earned.
  7. Jeff Kidd

    Jeff Kidd New Member

    Yes, but you reconstruct the inning without the errors and passed balls, not without the action that led to those scoring decisions. In other words, you don't assume the runner at third would have stayed put had the catcher only caught the ball because the catcher could still have retired the batter-runner at first and avoid being charged with a passed ball. In this case, the runner attempted to advance of his own volition. (The same logic dictates that if an infielder drops an easy pop up but then picks up the ball and throws to first to retire the batter-runner, he's not charged with an error.)

    Nonetheless, I'm not 100 percent sure on the scoring of this one, either. Were it my book, I think I would have to go caught stealing/K-fielder's choice since an out was recorded on the play. This would be the basis for making all the runs earned, not the logic that the runner at third would still have been there had the catcher caught the ball.
  8. It cannot be a caught stealing because runner tried to advance after ball got away from catcher.
    It should be a fielder's choice, 2-1 assist and putout.
    Runs would be earned.
    Key is, fielder had the choice of throwing to first or getting the runner at home.
    You had an out recorded on the player and in reality no advancement of runners. In fact, a runner on first replaced a runner on third.
  9. i was thinking that if there was no PB at all, the catcher wouldn't have had to make a throw to first at all. it just would have been one out, man on third.

    and i think poke is right about it not being a CS.

    that said, who knows?
  10. OJ1414

    OJ1414 Member

    Agree on the no caught stealing:

    From the MLB rule book:
    I'd call it a passed ball, 2-1 FC and count the run as earned.

    You rule on plays individually but you can't always determine if runs are earned or unearned until the inning is over. In this case, they'd be earned.
  11. HandsomeHarley

    HandsomeHarley Well-Known Member

    I'm going to interpret the rulebook as this being a fielder's choice.

    I was with you on calling it a passed ball until I read the rule. I think the rule makes this pretty clear.

    Therefore, CS 2-1; FC2 (no PB).
  12. Hank_Scorpio

    Hank_Scorpio Active Member

    Like Poke said, it can't be a CS since he only tried to advance after the catcher booted the ball.
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