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BALCO legacy stymied Mitchell

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by creamora, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    Gene Robinson is as close to a liberal race-baiter as you'll find in the Post's opinion section.
     
  2. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    just how is that whole cooperstown thing turning out for mcgwire? and, a small btw, i never once saw mcgwire's, clemens' or pettite's names linked to the drug dealer at balco. why would they be asked to testify concerning the bay area drug dealer?
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    There is a good reason they were never hauled before a grand jury. The Feds didn't have anything near the evidence on Brian McNamee they had on BALCO, and McNamee saved them from having to try to indict him by being honest about what he did and what he knew. What a fucking novel idea. When he knew he was caught red-handed, he was faced with an indictment or telling what he knew. He chose the latter. Victor Conte, on the other hand, figured he could outsmart the Feds. This forced the Feds to seek an indictment, instead of just pleading the thing (they had way more evidence on him than they had on McNamee, so Conte was never going to get an entirely free pass), and in the course of seeking that indictment they had to call witnesses before that grand jury. The Feds offered Bonds immunity. He could have told the truth and gotten on with his life (albeit disgraced in a baseball sense). Now they are alleging he lied. As you point out, ask for immunity and lie anyhow and the indictments start flying. This would be true whether you are Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens

    McNamee just accepted responsibility--unlike Conte (favorite SF Chronicle passage from the BALCO stories: "In e-mails to The Chronicle, Conte denied being the source of THG, questioned whether it was really a banned substance and said he was the victim of jealous and hypocritical track and field coaches.") The fact that McNamee didn't force them through the drudgery of convening a grand jury and gathering evidence in a case against him, saved Clemens and Pettitte trips to a grand jury room. He was a better friend to the guys he sold drugs to than Victor Conte was, apparently.
     
  4. Ragu --
    The Feds are never "forced" to seek an indictment. They do what they do because they want to do it.
     
  5. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Again, are Jones and Bonds guilty of using performance-enhancing drugs? Yes.

    Did they lie about it? Yes.

    Did Bonds commit perjury? That one's going to be settled in court. I think so, but I also could see his legal team getting him out of it.

    The evidence was there on BALCO. Actual evidence came out about Bonds while he was in pursuit of the major league home run record. There was never any real evidence against Clemens until the Mitchell Report, and this comes at a point where his career was just about over anyway.

    Jones is a different case in a different sport, and she was so vehement in her denials. I think that stuck with people as well.

    I'm not saying race was never an issue with anybody at all. That would be naive. But to say that this is all about race is also ridiculous.
     
  6. There seems to be some serious middle ground between "all about race" and "not about race" that's worth exploring.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    True. But the Feds need probable cause to indict someone. So even though the law isn't always applied evenly, the lesson to me is, don't break the law and you have nothing to worry about from the Feds.
     
  8. The lesson to me is that federal law enforcement can get "probable cause" on a busload of nuns these days. As to your last sentence, it seems a polite way to position the argument, "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care if they search you?"
     
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Do you really think that's what Jenkins meant in the column posted above?
     
  10. Do I think that she's arguing that "it's all about race"?
    No.
    Do I think she's arguing that race has an awful lot to do with the different treatment of the two men in the court of public outrage?
    Yes.
    And I agree with her.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Please don't speak for me if that is what you are going to come up with. I meant exactly what I said. If you want to sidetrack this into something unrelated about illegal searches and seizures, that is your red herring, not mine. I was talking about ACTUAL law breakers, not hypothetical fourth amendment violations.

    Don't break the law if you don't want the Feds potentially crawling down your back. That was all I said. If you do break the law, don't be surprised when you end up under indictment--whether it is a stupid law in your estimation or the law isn't applied evenly across the board. You made your choice. Live with it.

    EDIT: And your "probably cause on a bus load of nuns" line is your opinion. We still have a justice system that makes it extremely difficult to get a conviction against a bus load of nuns who have done nothing wrong. Victor Conte could have had his day in court. Barry Bonds has the right to his day in court. I look forward to him proving that the Feds don't have evidence of his lying under oath and all kinds of wrongdoing and frame-ups. It will definitely interest me if he is armed with such a solid defense.
     
  12. How you can write this --

    "And your "probably cause on a bus load of nuns" line is your opinion. We still have a justice system that makes it extremely difficult to get a conviction against a bus load of nuns who have done nothing wrong."

    -- after the past seven years is utterly hilarious.

    In case you missed it, American citizens can be locked up FOREVER without the technicality of charges.
    We live in a time of hypermilitarized criminal justice at every level. Yes, even in cases that you yourself deemed "trivial" a few threads ago. You've found the crime you want punished. Mazel tov.
     
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