Alex Rodriguez: Hall of Famer?

That speaks more to writers' desperate need to be "in the know" than they really are. And that's the big reason I hope and anticipate the whole thing will be taken away from writers in the near future.

 

I would have been opposed to that until this year where it seemed like they tried to make it about them.

I just wonder what the better options are. Do you do it like the NFL? Do you have the living HOF members vote? I don't know...

 

Great. Now if you'll stick to applying that to guys who have actually been proven to be PED users, there might be an argument that you aren't abusing your vote.

 

The Feds raided the place because of Jeff Novitzky's hard-on and because of a notion (correct) that ***something*** was happening.

And Conte went to prison based on a plea deal to steroid distribution and money laundering. As I understand it, the plea deal was the easiest way for him to dispense of the charges without really paying a price for the steroids, because he got as much as he would have if money laundering had been the only charge. It would have been an interesting case if it were steroids alone and the potential penalties were stiff enough to give him something to fight for.

 

So is cocaine and speed

 

So who falls into the "proven" category? Do we limit that to people who were suspended or have admitted using?

A-Rod
Braun
Ramirez
McGwire
Palmeiro
Giambi (not that he was ever going to get in)
Pettitte (not that he's getting in either...)

Then there are the names that have come out in the Mitchell Report or court documents
Clemens
Bonds
Tejada...

I remember a few years ago there was a story that Sosa had tested positive for PEDs in 2003.

What category do you put these guys in?
Ivan Rodriguez
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell

 

There is no real evidence against Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza or Jeff Bagwell. PEDs should not be a factor for Hall of Fame voters when considering those three, but they will be.

 

Kick 'em all out, I guess. :

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/opinion/20chafets.html?_r=0

 

I thought there was for Rodriguez. In any case, him showing up at spring training weighing 30 pounds less, the season after the Balco case exploded, removed all doubt in any sane person's mind.

 

Wasn't Pudge named in the Mitchell Report? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought he was. I know his name got out there someone in connection with steroids. Was it maybe Canseco talking about giving "Vitamin B12" shots to Pudge, Palmeiro and Gonzalez?

Someone help me out here.

 

That story is a good example of why anyone who thinks they know when Bonds or Clemens started using "performance enhancers" and how legitimate their accomplishments were before that imaginary date is kidding themselves. Drugs have always been a part of the culture. The sanctimony is what came later.

 

Totally agree. During the Balco flareup, I saw a quote where Jim Bouton differentiated by saying greenies weren't performance enhancers, they were performance enablers. Uh, what?

I do think there's a moral and fairness component to consider with the guys who don't do it. The career Triple A guy, for instance. Or take someone like Jeter -- he's a guy that I think most people would say don't do it. And over time he has come to be considered overrated compared with A-Rod, Tejada, Nomar etc. Well, is that fair if he really was not doing all that?