A religious and philosophical question

Some pretty solid amateur philosophy/theology, 'Gola. These are difficult questions.

Just a side note about even trying to wrestle with this kind of shit...
The traditional denominations aren't too popular these days and people are leaving them in droves to go to places where the services are more contemporary or the sermons are about things they want to hear. But one thing that the traditional denominations have going for them is a heritage of centuries (or in the case of the Apostolic denominations, a couple of millenia) of people working on these same questions. Even if you don't agree, it's useful to see what others have come up with over the years.

 

I have emails in with my parents and brother-in-law as well, I think they might have some interesting things to say as well.

 

Going back to hb's original question, I know this is a different religion(but Judaism, Christinaity, and Islam are pretty similar especially when it comes down to this type of stuff), but in Islam God is all knowing and all powerful. But at the same time he gives us free will because this life is seen as only a test.
This reminds me of a story my dad told me when I was younger. There were 2 students in a classroom. One was intelligent and the other was a unintelligent slacker. The teacher of the class announced that there would be a test tomorrow. The intelligent student asked the teacher why to give the slacker the test if he already knew that he would fail. The teacher replied that a chance should always be given to the student. So if the student ends up failing, he wont come back to say he never got a chance. The same idea applies to religion. God knows what's going to happen. But at the same time, he gives us a chance to "ace the test".

 

I'm not Catholic, so take my Protestant views as heretical if you want, but here's what I believe.

First, I agree with those who say suicide seems to be the act of someone who is mentally ill, because self-preservation is our most basic instinct. Think about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and how suicide turns that on its head.

Also, I believe that Jesus died once for all sin. His sacrifice covers all sins except not accepting his sacrifice. When he speaks of the unpardonable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I believe this is what he means. We get the Spirit by accepting Christ, so to reject him is to tell the Spirit, "You aren't what you claim to be and I don't need you." That gets you a trip to Hell because you have rejected the Way to Heaven.

But I believe (and I know I'm in the minority, though I can cite scripture if I need to) that once one has accepted Christ, all of their sins -- past, present and future -- are forgiven. In fact, as I said earlier, they were already forgiven, but they now taken care of the one left over.

By that logic, suicide is no different than any other sin aside from not accepting Christ -- it is already forgiven before it is even committed.

Now that I've lost everyone as some whacked-out-God-is-love-er, let me add some logic.

I agree that God is not bound by time, which he created, so there is no conflict with us having free will but his seeing our actions ahead of time, because he is simultaneously at the beginning of time, the end and every point in between.

Also, IF suicide is not that big a deal, it's probably best the Bible is silent about it. Otherwise, wouldn't Christianity have died out long ago as all the believers simply killed themselves to get to Heaven quicker?

 

I'm forgiven for everything, even the stuff I haven't done yet? Hmmm...

*logs onto craigslist*

 

I definitely don't think it comes across wrong and I am sorry for your loss. I believe you are excused if there is some kind of mental anguish, disease, etc. Listen, my wife is bipolar and there is not a day that goes by that I don't think about her killing herself. She's on medication, goes to therapy, does yoga, etc, takes care of herself. But sometimes it's not enough. It's something I have to keep an eye out for. And I definitely worry about what happens to her should she commit suicide. I waved bye-bye to Catholicism a long time ago, but there are some times I still agree with and its take on suicide, now that I've read it, is something I believe in.

 

I like your thinking, Okie.

 

Lot of people around here going to hell.

 

They'll need a handbasket.

 

That's the great part about Catholicism. Ask any mobster.

 

Many Catholic theologians warn against the rationale that suicide automatically means the person was suffering from a mental illness that removes responsibility.
By the same token, I cannot fathom murder, but I don't think anyone who does murder is suffering from a mental illness or diminished capacity that relieves the killer of responsibility.
Ultimately, such a determination is made by god.

 

As others have said, the person that commits suicide feels hopeless and they're mentally exhausted. They see no other way out. I can't understand why a Higher Religious Entity that's based on an all-encompassing love would damn that person to an eternity in hell.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. It wouldn't be the first time.