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2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    It shouldn't have been known and MLB has absolutely gotten too much of a pass for all the leaked test results, but we do know it now. Ortiz failed that test. That knowledge doesn't go away just because it shouldn't have come out in the first place.

    Edit: It is important to note that Ortiz has never disputed that test result. I believe he also pointed out, correctly, that it shouldn't have been made public, but I don't think anybody disputes the validity of the test.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
    JC likes this.
  2. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    You have an idea, but Bonds could have been using his entire career. I know he was skinny when he came up with the Pirates, but there have been skinny little guys who were busted for PED use.
  3. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Cmon, are we going down the road of if you didn’t fail a test you’re clean? Lance Armstrong would like a word.
  4. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    I could be persuaded, I suppose, but it's kind of a separate argument removing guys from the Hall who have been in for years, even decades. And, realistically, it's probably moot. I doubt we'll suddenly find out definitively that there is someone currently in the Hall who used PEDs. I don't even know how that would happen without someone coming out and admitting it.
  5. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    It is pretty well accepted Bonds didn't start using until after 1998. He had one hell of an ego and couldn't stand watching the accolades McGwire and Sosa were getting for chasing the home run record. He was a legit HOFer up to 1998 with his stolen base and home run dual threat. But he wanted the home runs because they were sexy and being a 40-40 guy or a 300-300 guy was not going to make him the game's greatest. He went after power rather than being the speed and power guy. This is pretty well documented in Game of Shadows.
  6. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Well accepted? By the same people who ignore it owners naive as hell for yeas? Fuck that, nobody knows when he or any of them started,
  7. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    Didn’t it come out at the Balco trial?
  8. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    I have no idea what this means.

    But yes. There is a pretty good line of demarcation where Bonds went from stellar athlete who was a without a doubt HOFer to the poster child for PEDs.
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    It is just as likely that he used PEDs to help him become the stellar athlete who was without a doubt HOFer, then used even more heavily or used something additional to become the poster child for PEDs.

    I do believe that Bonds changed something around the time that you suspect, but that doesn't mean he wasn't cheating all along.
  10. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    It could be likely be used all along except the available evidence says he started in 1999. That's from the Game of Shadows investigation that documented his steroid use that began in 99.

    Looking at his stats, he is remarkably consistent from college to the minors to the pros. Things don't get weird until 2000 when a guy who was a consistent 30 to 35 homerun hitter suddenly is belting 45-plus every season (including the 73 in 2001). So taking your assumptions as fact, when did he start? In high school to land a D1 ride? At ASU when he hit 23 his junior season? When he was drafted in 85? When he debuted in 86? The available evidence just isn't there prior to 99. He was a steroid riddled SOB for sure which makes it easy to cast doubt on all his stats but the fact is the proof suggests otherwise.
  11. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Your argument suits my point. We can't prove definitively if he did or if he did not use steroids before 1999. Maybe he started using steroids in high school, then switched drugs and/or added HGH to the mix in 1999.
  12. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    But to your point, there isn't any evidence that he used prior to 98/99 but there is documentation that he did use after that point. Given how consistent he was prior to the line of demarcation and lack of evidence connecting him to riods while with the Pirates, it isn't crazy to conclude his numbers were genuine.

    I think guys like Bonds and Clemens were legitimately great before they started using and went to drugs to become that much better. Other guys used it to compete with everyone else or to go from mediocre to pretty good (Sosa among others).
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