2008/09 NHL Thread

The Habs are on just as wild a roller coaster. strange things happen when they meet up.

 

Keetley!

 

Some of us are in denial.

Tied at one in the second.

 

Do most people feel like you in Edmonton? What's the split? Honest question, no snark intended, just curious what the general feel about Penner is there.

 

Hey ... that was Augroin.

 

I actually don't live in Edmonton -- I live between Edmonton and Calgary. The feeling I get though from Edmonton -- I was listening to the sports talk radio from Edmonton during the afternoon (After we had started our back and forth this morning) and the hosts pretty much were echoing my thoughts, the few callers I heard for the most part were on the same side. Talked to a friend of mine in Edmonton this evening and she said pretty much the whole city is fed up with MacTavish's act and the way he has handled the team whether they like Penner or not. That's what I've heard, that's what I've been told. I also have friends that are Oilers fans outside the city towards Saskatchewan who have hated the Penner deal from the start and are of course onside with the coach.

I just want to emphasise, my rants the past two days are not because I'm a huge Penner fan -- it's just that I see what he is and the potential he has (he will more than likely never be an MVP finalist, but 30-40 goals is what he is capable of and what the RFA deal and contract was worth). I also have watched for 9 years as MacTavish has handled players and I'm sick of it. The fact is MacTavish was far to hung up on the first impression which admittedly was horrible, and learned very little if anything from the way Penner finished the season and handled the offseason.

Quite simply, if you want the guy to be a top six forward, play him on the top two lines and power play, do not bury him on the third and fourth lines with checkers and unsuitable linemates and then wonder why he isn't producing and then throw him under the bus as the team's big problem while other underperforming players are given a free pass.

That's what I am taking issue with. He created a scapegoat, and now that he sees his time in Edmonton my be in jeopardy he is using it the best he can.

 

How would you motivate a guy who is a floater and continues to float? Take away his ice time. That's one point Melrose made in his interview with MacLean -- Stamkos didn't get the ice time because he didn't deserve it.
You give a guy the ice time his play warrants. He doesn't play first or second line just because you're stuck with a huge contract and have to justify it. You give him the ice time he deserves and reward him if his play demonstrates he deserves more.

 

I do understand that, but until last night I do no believe he had started a single game on one of the top two lines all season -- including the first three games of the season when he was one of their better players. All he saw was diminishing ice time and sets of linemates that made no sense at all. At the same time other players on the team -- especially the top two lines -- struggled mightily with little or no reprimand.

He was the team leading goal scorer last season, reportedly rededicated himself during the offseason, but was demoted to the third line before camp even started.

At this point it becomes a two-way street, it can't all be on the player all the time. As I've said several times, he was put in a position to fail and he did. Until last night he wasn't seriously given a chance to succeed and surprise, surprise he came through with a solid all-round game.

 

You say he came in this is year in the best shape of his life, but from what I hear he is not in good enough hockey shape. So the best shape of his life is like being the tallest midget, it's all relative. I'm with Huntsie you've got to earn your ice time. Randy Carlyle quite often demoted Penner to the 4th line to try to motivate him.

 

That may be, but at the very least it was showing an effort to change. Reports during camp was that he was in shape as upposed to last year, his results during fitness tests didn't dispute that. Now I don't know what has happened to change that between then and now. I know it looked like Penner was a little flbbergasted by the question when it was put to him on Sunday or monday when asked to respond to MacTavish's assertations that he was out of shape. So it's who you want to believe there.

He wasn't even given an opportunity to compete for the job despite playing well early on. At some point he has to be given an opportunity if he is playing well, and he never was and after a while his play dropped off.

It would be one thing if it was like Ryder last year with the Canadiens and he was given chance after chance in good opportunities and never took advantage. He hasn't had that until last night.

 

I guess could you tell me any other team leading goal scorer who was demoted off of the top line all the way down to the third line during the offseason? By leading the team in goals, it woud be my assumption that he at least earned a spot on the top 2 lines. Call me crazy.

 

Kind of fitting, considering Carlyle himself was not a very disciplined player in his youth. That's why Toronto sent him to Pittsburgh.....great move for Carlyle, terrible move for the Leafs (it cost them Carlyle and George Ferguson to get a spent Dave Burrows), but then again what's new?