UPDATE: ISU prez green lights chap... er, "life skills assistant" propsosal

[Beaker]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Another newbie here...I'm all for the players to have someone to go to for guidance, but as many people on here have noted, having a team chaplain is fraught with problems.

It seems to me that if a player wants that kind of advice, he should be able to go to a local church.

 

[zeke12]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Not so much "that's different" as "that's gibberish."

The pills, in the cabinet. Drink a glass of water.

 

[jambalaya]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven."

The Pharisees used to pay people to blow trumpets before they prayed in public, which Jesus was talking about in the scripture you mentioned.

Praying in public, whether it be for something or someone, is quite different than the act of fellowship and teaching the Good News, which Jesus asks of us.

 

[zeke12]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Very true.

But the difference is one of intent, correct?

 

[jimmymcd]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

D-3:
Despite my personal beliefs, I can say that this is a pretty inappropriate move by Chizik. It's a state school, and more importantly in a team sport, it could create rifts between players, staff, or both. Stick with having FCA, local churches, etc. available for those who feel the need.

I would challenge you to find examples where having an FCA minister hanging around has caused rifts between players. And spare me the -- "I talked to one player who said" bullshirt.

The guy isn't being paid by the school, it isn't a problem. Period.

Zag, read what I wrote again please. I have no problem with the FCA, and fully support them. It's the idea of having a designated "chaplain" that worries me. And believe me, my experience is not of the "I talked to one player" variety.

 

[zagoshe]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Not so much "that's different" as "that's gibberish."

The pills, in the cabinet. Drink a glass of water.

Nice tap dance, you and the Big Chee should get together and join dancing with stars because both of you are master's at dancing around subjects that pose a whole lot of trouble for your very predictable and one-sided views as well as avoding answering questions that expose you as a fraud and a hypocrite -- that said, I'm still waiting for a thread about how horrible the Democratic candidates for president are for invoking religion into politics, my guess is I'll be waiting a long time.

I'm still waiting for you and the Fenian one to denounce Hillary and Obama for bringing God and their faith into the equation in order to try and sway religious people from the Rep's to their side........

 

[zagoshe]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

D-3:
Despite my personal beliefs, I can say that this is a pretty inappropriate move by Chizik. It's a state school, and more importantly in a team sport, it could create rifts between players, staff, or both. Stick with having FCA, local churches, etc. available for those who feel the need.

I would challenge you to find examples where having an FCA minister hanging around has caused rifts between players. And spare me the -- "I talked to one player who said" bullshirt.

The guy isn't being paid by the school, it isn't a problem. Period.

Zag, read what I wrote again please. I have no problem with the FCA, and fully support them. It's the idea of having a designated "chaplain" that worries me. And believe me, my experience is not of the "I talked to one player" variety.

I've covered three Division I programs in the last nine years. All three had chaplains -- all three were pictured in the media guide in fact -- and there wasn't any splitting of the team, riotting, an outbreak of scrubs playing because they attended bible classes and John the Baptist didn't turn the whirlpool into a baptismal. It is no problem at all because the guy is there to help the kids and the only ones who have to talk to him are the ones who choose to.

Geez, and liberals are always railing on conservatives for being paranoid.....

 

[zeke12]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Not so much "that's different" as "that's gibberish."

The pills, in the cabinet. Drink a glass of water.

Nice tap dance, you and the Big Chee should get together and join dancing with stars because both of you are master's at dancing around subjects that pose a whole lot of trouble for your very predictable and one-sided views as well as avoding answering questions that expose you as a fraud and a hypocrite -- that said, I'm still waiting for a thread about how horrible the Democratic candidates for president are for invoking religion into politics, my guess is I'll be waiting a long time.

I'm still waiting for you and the Fenian one to denounce Hillary and Obama for bringing God and their faith into the equation in order to try and sway religious people from the Rep's to their side........

Nowhere in that bunch of garbled nonsense is there any kind of response or challenge based on anything I've said on this thread or on this board, to the best of my knowledge.

But if you want to argue with the voices in your head, you go right ahead.

 

[Yawn]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

You all have confused Zeke.

 

[Pastor]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Well, I respectfully disagree, Pastor. Not if they bring in the right pastor and take the appropriate approach.
But I can see why some would have those fears.
I just think it's more of a case-by-case issue than a black-and-white one. That was the point I was trying to get across.

Here is the problem: You cannot gaurantee that the coach won't require his players to talk to the chaplain. And, since it is paid externally by a group not exactly known for its religious tolerance, it would be very hard to monitor the chaplain to make certain that he wasn't imposing too much on the student.

What happens when some kid, which isn't too interested in speaking to the chaplain, loses out on some playing time. Maybe it is his work rate or his play in practice that is holding him back but the kid that is playing is seeing the chaplain at least once a week. The benched player may not realize that it is his play in practice and may believe it all comes down to visiting the chaplain.

Now, you have a player that's running to the newspapers to complain "I'm not playing because I won't go to the chaplain. I am cut off because of religion." Not only is a court case coming up but a rift has formed in the locker room. Why would a coach want to put himself in that position? Why would a coach want to risk getting sued for not playing a kid based on allegations?

There is a reason that the church needs to stay away from public institutions. These institutions are inclusive to all people, not just Christians. At no point should some kid at a public institution feel as though they need to take part in a religious practice just so they can participate in an activity.

Besides, these athletes have a chaplain on campus. They are located at the church. The only difference is that it isn't directly in the locker room.

 

[Born to Run]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Pastor:
We just have differences of opinion on whether there would be undue pressure on the players. I say it's unlikely.
There's certainly a possibility some players would be uncomfortable with pre- or postgame prayers, chaplain or no chaplain.
But I just can't see a coach who's hired and fired based on his won-loss record benching a player because of his religious views. If two players have equal ability, character and leadership could be factors
but that involves far more than religion.

 

[Pastor]

Re: Iowa State football to consider hiring a chaplain

Pastor:
We just have differences of opinion on whether there would be undue pressure on the players. I say it's unlikely.
There's certainly a possibility some players would be uncomfortable with pre- or postgame prayers, chaplain or no chaplain.
But I just can't see a coach who's hired and fired based on his won-loss record benching a player because of his religious views. If two players have equal ability, character and leadership could be factors
but that involves far more than religion.

Again, BtR, you are missing the point. This has NOTHING to do with whether players will be under pressure (and history has shown that a lot of times they are). This has to deal with perception as well as team unity.

Why bring in a Christian chaplain when you want the group to function as one? Why bring in someone that doesn't speak for everyone in the group?

Here's a thought: Why not have a local strip club pay for a bunch of girls to dance in one of the coach's rooms. The players that want to see the strippers can go to the room. Those that don't want to don't have to.

It would be a stupid policy.

Also, BtR, why can't you just leave the damn church out of the public schools? Seriously, WHY? Are the students that want and need a chaplain too stupid to find the local church?