This Is What Fear Makes Of A Country

[Fenian_Bastard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/world/middleeast/18justice.html?ei=5094&en=75f8d6f0ce303868&hp=&ex=1166504400&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

Talk about unAmerican.
The junta has left too much wreckage behind.

 

[Rufino]

That's shameful, and sadly unsurprising. I look forward to reading the excuses that are sure to follow here, though.

 

[Chi City 81]

Amazing story. And it's all lies, told by the Democrat-leaning propagandists at the New York Times.

Why do you hate 'Murica, Fenian?

 

[Omar_dont_scare]

Lovely. I look forward to Lyman, Chris L and the others drinking the Koolaid justifying this.

 

[hondo]

There is no justifying this. Heads should roll over it. I mean that sincerely.

Happy?

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Whose heads, though?
Seriously, if impeachment's off the table -- and as a practical political matter I agree that it should be -- how do we hold the bossman accountable, or the high-level underlings? They're immunized against lawsuits, or at least that's my understanding. (Lawyers, please check in.) And I have a horrible feeling that the horrible Military Commissions Act may obviate civil damages anyway. Are we going to toss some guards under the bus again. This is a direct -- and entirely predictable -- result of deliberate policies of the government, policies that were popular with, or at least, not overly bothersome to, the great majority of the people in the country. I'm lost for a solution.
We are going to need a Truth Commission, I swear to god.

 

[alleyallen]

Whose heads, though?
Seriously, if impeachment's off the table -- and as a practical political matter I agree that it should be -- how do we hold the bossman accountable, or the high-level underlings? They're immunized against lawsuits, or at least that's my understanding. (Lawyers, please check in.) And I have a horrible feeling that the horrible Military Commissions Act may obviate civil damages anyway. Are we going to toss some guards under the bus again. This is a direct -- and entirely predictable -- result of deliberate policies of the government, policies that were popular with, or at least, not overly bothersome to, the great majority of the people in the country. I'm lost for a solution.
We are going to need a Truth Commission, I swear to god.

I understand the desire for some accountability, but as is often the case when it comes to the military/intellligence communities, it can be difficult to find responsible parties who can actually be punished. My bigger concern would be to set up some legal and enforceable safeguards to prevent this from happening again, then move forward on a liability basis.

 

[alleyallen]

There is no justifying this. Heads should roll over it. I mean that sincerely.

Happy?

Hondo, I'm pleased by your attitude. Not because you agree, but that we all can, hopefully, be civil about it.

BTW, Hondo High School is in the state finals in one of the Texas high school football clashes.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Whose heads, though?
Seriously, if impeachment's off the table -- and as a practical political matter I agree that it should be -- how do we hold the bossman accountable, or the high-level underlings? They're immunized against lawsuits, or at least that's my understanding. (Lawyers, please check in.) And I have a horrible feeling that the horrible Military Commissions Act may obviate civil damages anyway. Are we going to toss some guards under the bus again. This is a direct -- and entirely predictable -- result of deliberate policies of the government, policies that were popular with, or at least, not overly bothersome to, the great majority of the people in the country. I'm lost for a solution.
We are going to need a Truth Commission, I swear to god.

I understand the desire for some accountability, but as is often the case when it comes to the military/intellligence communities, it can be difficult to find responsible parties who can actually be punished. My bigger concern would be to set up some legal and enforceable safeguards to prevent this from happening again, then move forward on a liability basis.

The problem is that these policies emanate from a national executive that is quite plain in expressing the opinion that there are no legal and enforceable safeguards that it needs to obey and, therefore, that can prevent this from reoccurring, which, I guarantee you, is happening again somewhere as we speak. I mean, I can think of one safeguard that begins, "We, the People" and we know how they feel about that one.

 

[alleyallen]

Whose heads, though?
Seriously, if impeachment's off the table -- and as a practical political matter I agree that it should be -- how do we hold the bossman accountable, or the high-level underlings? They're immunized against lawsuits, or at least that's my understanding. (Lawyers, please check in.) And I have a horrible feeling that the horrible Military Commissions Act may obviate civil damages anyway. Are we going to toss some guards under the bus again. This is a direct -- and entirely predictable -- result of deliberate policies of the government, policies that were popular with, or at least, not overly bothersome to, the great majority of the people in the country. I'm lost for a solution.
We are going to need a Truth Commission, I swear to god.

I understand the desire for some accountability, but as is often the case when it comes to the military/intellligence communities, it can be difficult to find responsible parties who can actually be punished. My bigger concern would be to set up some legal and enforceable safeguards to prevent this from happening again, then move forward on a liability basis.

The problem is that these policies emanate from a national executive that is quite plain in expressing the opinion that there are no legal and enforceable safeguards that it needs to obey and, therefore, that can prevent this from reoccurring, which, I guarantee you, is happening again somewhere as we speak. I mean, I can think of one safeguard that begins, "We, the People" and we know how they feel about that one.

I wonder if this truly is a "national executive order," as has been implied, and if so, is it in writing. Because if it's not, again, it can be harder to "pin" this on anyone.

That being said, I'm not really concerned about who's to blame. At least not at this point. As far as prevention goes, though, I guess you really have to know who's at fault to stop it.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

I think it's an inevitable outcome of the theory of the executive branch under which these folks have been operating since before 9/11. (The evnts of that day shot the theory full of HGH.) Namely, that there can be no oversight of the president's policies if the president announces a state of war. John Yoo is very plain about this, and he wrote the memos. Sam Alito's one of the founding legal minds behind this heresy, and deck Cheney thinks it should have been asherted during Watergate, for pity's sake. It's constitutional nonsense and an open road to authoritarian government and it needs to be crushed to the earth and burned so it never rises again, because this is what you get.

 

[alleyallen]

I think it's an inevitable outcome of the theory of the executive branch under which these folks have been operating since before 9/11. (The evnts of that day shot the theory full of HGH.) Namely, that there can be no oversight of the president's policies if the president announces a state of war. John Yoo is very plain about this, and he wrote the memos. Sam Alito's one of the founding legal minds behind this heresy, and deck Cheney thinks it should have been asherted during Watergate, for pity's sake. It's constitutional nonsense and an open road to authoritarian government and it needs to be crushed to the earth and burned so it never rises again, because this is what you get.

I'm not willing to take my response to that extreme, but it certainly is bothersome when this sort of overstepping of bounds comes to light.