Mike Mussina, Hall of Famer?

[WaylonJennings]

With Glavine getting No. 300 last night and cementing his plaque, there's a lot of talk about him being the last one to the magic number.

Which raises the question of future HOF standards for pitchers.

Mussina's at 246 and counting. And in some ways, he's had a better career than Glavine. Mussina has four seasons of 200-plus strikeouts. Glavine has none.

Some other statistical comparisions (and keep in mind that Mussina has pitched in the American League his whole career, Glavine in the National League):

GS
Mussina 494
Glavine 659

IP
Mussina 3,316
Glavine 4,293 2/3

WINNING PCT.
Mussina .636
Glavine .604

ERA
Mussina 3.67
Glavine 3.40

SO
Mussina 2,639
Glavine 2,544

WHIP
Mussina 1.183
Glavine 1.306

SHO
Mussina 23
Glavine 35

CG
Mussina 57
Glavine 56

Glavine's two Cy Young Awards help him out a great deal, of course. And Mussina's never won 20 games.

That being said, I'd vote for him.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

You make a pretty strong case for him... My initial reaction would be that he's not a HOFer... He'll be close and playing in NYC will help. If he can get to 270-280 wins it will definitely help his case...

 

[playthrough]

Never winning 20, presuming he doesn't get to 300, would be a vote against for me. And if you have to make a "case" including WHIP, CG and the like, it's too much of an effort IMO. He narrowly misses without 300 wins.

 

[GB-Hack]

I think the two strikes that Waylon lays out at the end of his post are the ones that maybe count the most.

No Cy Young. No 20-win seasons.

To me, the lack of a Cy Young says at no point in his career was he considered the best pitcher in the majors. And I think you need to have that to get into the hall.

If he had a Cy Young, I'd say he'd get there. Since he doesn't, it's going to be very close.

Now, that doesn't mean I think having a Cy Young on your resume makes you automatic. But I think having one goes a long way to helping, and having more than one makes your case very strong.

 

[X-Hack]

Agreed. Not without 300 wins. Certainly not if Morris and Blyleven aren't in.

Glavine would have been in the same boat without that magic milestone.

Edit: another look at Glavine's numbers tells me he didn't need to get to 300. 250-275 would have done it just fine. For some reason I thought he only had 3 seasons of 20 or more wins. He had 5.

 

[Bob Cook]

Never winning 20, presuming he doesn't get to 300, would be a vote against for me. And if you have to make a "case" including WHIP, CG and the like, it's too much of an effort IMO. He narrowly misses without 300 wins.

WHIP is a pretty strong indicator, actually, of how good a pitcher somebody is. (By the way, Jack Morris has a better WHIP than Glavine, too.) Wins is a decent stat, but it is also reliant on your teammates coming through. Ask Tommy John and Bert Blyleven, whose win totals were weighed down by some brutal teams. If Mussina gets in, then they both should definitely get in, too.

 

[mike311gd]

Agreed. Not without 300 wins. Certainly not if Morris and Blyleven aren't in.

Glavine would have been in the same boat without that magic milestone.

I don't know about that. Glavine's five 20-plus-win seasons, his two Cy Youngs and his 10 All-Star Game selections make a pretty good case for he, even if he retired with 280-295 wins. Not to mention he was seen by most around the game as one of the best pitchers all through the 90s.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young... I don't think Don Sutton or Ferguson Jenkins did either...

Wasn't Glavine the WS MVP the one year the Braves won it all... That won't hurt him at all...

I've always liked the theory that if you need to think about whether someone deserves to be in the HOF that they don't deserve it... I think that works about 90 percent of the time...

I've always considered Glavine to be a much better pitcher than Mussina...

 

[Boom_70]

No 20 game win seasons would be deal breaker for me.

Now what about

Pedro?
Schill?
David Wells ?

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Morris is one that I really struggle with... He was the best pitcher in the A.L. for a full decade... I know his stats aren't great and his ERA is particularly bad, but he was on two WS winners... I don't think he ever won a Cy Young...

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Pedro - definitely...
Schilling - Probably... I think the bloody sock gets him in...
Wells - No way in hell...

 

[mike311gd]

Pedro - definitely...
Schilling - Probably... I think the bloody sock gets him in...
Wells - No way in hell...

Couldn't agree more. Well, I probably could, but it's still early.