Cheering in the Clemson pressbox

[da man]

I think my point is getting lost. If the five other people in a high school press box besides the reporter are cheering, is that wrong?

Yes. The press box is a workplace. If you want to cheer, that's what the stands are for.

I understand that isn't the case in most high school press boxes. That doesn't make it right.

Who are you to define what that box gets used for? If a high school's athletic director says cheering in the press box is OK, is that wrong?

It's the school district's press box, so the people in charge of that make the rules. So is it against policy? Is it something you can do something about? No.

It's still wrong. If you set aside a place for people to work, and there are thousands of places nearby for people to cheer, then save the workplace for the workers and let the rest cheer elsewhere.

 

[da man]

At least on press row it's not the people sitting next to you and there's usually some buffer between you and the fans that makes it possible to work. And there is a press room made available as an alternative. I'll put it this way, you shouldn't do anything in a press box you wouldn't do in the press room at a basketball game.

And can we give the sports writers are sloppy dressers thing a rest. Some dress well. Some don't. You could say the same thing about accountants.

I think lcjjdnh's point -- a good one -- was that if keeping press box conditions professional was the sole factor behind all this, SIDs should kick out reporters who dress poorly. That obviously doesn't apply to all reporters or even most. But some, certainly.

A guy dressing badly does not affect my ability to work. A guy screaming for his team to tackle that bum does.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

First off, the expectation of professionalism with just about anything regarding high school football is much lower than major college football.

But yes. Is it evil, no. But it's wrong in a sense that it's not what you are supposed to do. If you are there to operate the scoreboard or spot for the radio announcer, then do that. If you want to cheer (out loud) for your school then sit in the bleachers.

I don't think it's that difficult to both. Thousands do it every Friday night. Why should reporters demand everyone else in a press box conform to their ethics?

Well, as noted above, it's also the ethics of the SIDs and it's their press box. That's part of the reason cheering in a high school press box isn't quite the same offense, but if you make a choice to work a game rather than attend a game as a fan, then please shut up and work.

One of the first times I ever covered a major college event I was 20 and watching the school I was attending and had rooted for since I was old enough to understand what football and basketball were upset its hated rival. If I was able to keep from cheering in the press box then anybody should be able to. I don't blame anybody if they want to cheer for their team, but if that's what you choose to do then go as a fan.

And what gives you the authority to dictate how somebody else acts in a press box?

Me personally, nothing. But organizations such as CoSIDA, APSE and FWAA work together to come up with rules and policies like these. Why is it so hard to respect that?

None of those groups have any jurisdiction over a high school press box.

Which is why I've acknowledged that cheering in a high school press box is different. You expect less professionalism because there usually is no SID and the people working are usually volunteers. It's annoying and it isn't right, but most reporters can and do live with it. The Clemson thing, which was the point of this thread, is a completely different issue. High school press boxes only got introduced into the debate when it became clear anybody arguing in favor of cheering in a college press box was dead wrong.

 

[Dan Feldman]

At least on press row it's not the people sitting next to you and there's usually some buffer between you and the fans that makes it possible to work. And there is a press room made available as an alternative. I'll put it this way, you shouldn't do anything in a press box you wouldn't do in the press room at a basketball game.

And can we give the sports writers are sloppy dressers thing a rest. Some dress well. Some don't. You could say the same thing about accountants.

I think lcjjdnh's point -- a good one -- was that if keeping press box conditions professional was the sole factor behind all this, SIDs should kick out reporters who dress poorly. That obviously doesn't apply to all reporters or even most. But some, certainly.

A guy dressing badly does not affect my ability to work. A guy screaming for his team to tackle that bum does.

Which brings us back to the larger point, why does a school/team/whoever runs the press box have a duty to provide ideal work conditions for you? It's certainly nice that they do, and it might even be in their best interest. But if they decide it's not, reporters have no ground to demand there be no cheering in the press box.

 

[Dan Feldman]

First off, the expectation of professionalism with just about anything regarding high school football is much lower than major college football.

But yes. Is it evil, no. But it's wrong in a sense that it's not what you are supposed to do. If you are there to operate the scoreboard or spot for the radio announcer, then do that. If you want to cheer (out loud) for your school then sit in the bleachers.

I don't think it's that difficult to both. Thousands do it every Friday night. Why should reporters demand everyone else in a press box conform to their ethics?

Well, as noted above, it's also the ethics of the SIDs and it's their press box. That's part of the reason cheering in a high school press box isn't quite the same offense, but if you make a choice to work a game rather than attend a game as a fan, then please shut up and work.

One of the first times I ever covered a major college event I was 20 and watching the school I was attending and had rooted for since I was old enough to understand what football and basketball were upset its hated rival. If I was able to keep from cheering in the press box then anybody should be able to. I don't blame anybody if they want to cheer for their team, but if that's what you choose to do then go as a fan.

And what gives you the authority to dictate how somebody else acts in a press box?

Me personally, nothing. But organizations such as CoSIDA, APSE and FWAA work together to come up with rules and policies like these. Why is it so hard to respect that?

None of those groups have any jurisdiction over a high school press box.

Which is why I've acknowledged that cheering in a high school press box is different. You expect less professionalism because there usually is no SID and the people working are usually volunteers. It's annoying and it isn't right, but most reporters can and do live with it. The Clemson thing, which was the point of this thread, is a completely different issue. High school press boxes only got introduced into the debate when it became clear anybody arguing in favor of cheering in a college press box was dead wrong.

Why isn't it "right"?

 

[waterytart]

Adam/Skip was at least intermittently entertaining.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

Jesus, we're going in circles here. One more time, if you sign up to work a game the right thing to do is work and not cheer, which not only distracts everyone else working, could very well distract you too. I don't know how many times I've seen a high school scoreboard operator forget to stop the clock because he was still complaining about a referees call or boasting about the play before.

And the school, doesn't have a duty to sports writers, but they have a duty to fans and boosters to help their teams get covered and covered as well as possible. And, like I said, if I'm covering a game it's not just ideal working conditions for me, it's also for their own people and visiting employees from the other school and conference officials and those pro scouts who might help their players get into the NFL, etc.

 

[Dan Feldman]

I think my point is getting lost. If the five other people in a high school press box besides the reporter are cheering, is that wrong?

Yes. The press box is a workplace. If you want to cheer, that's what the stands are for.

I understand that isn't the case in most high school press boxes. That doesn't make it right.

Who are you to define what that box gets used for? If a high school's athletic director says cheering in the press box is OK, is that wrong?

It's the school district's press box, so the people in charge of that make the rules. So is it against policy? Is it something you can do something about? No.

It's still wrong. If you set aside a place for people to work, and there are thousands of places nearby for people to cheer, then save the workplace for the workers and let the rest cheer elsewhere.

Clearly, in that situation, the AD wouldn't be setting it aside as a place only to work.

 

[SF_Express]

You know what I'm missing as I move into curmudgeonhood? And Dan, I'm really not much knocking you as lamenting the continued loss of ... something.

I miss the days where more things were done simply "because," because that's the way it's done in this world, and that's what professional and polite behavior is, and you didn't need a lawyer or a writ or a debate to explain why. Just "because."

This is one of those. You don't cheer in professional (meaning professionally run) press boxes because it's a work area and that's the way it is, or should be, and that should be enough. But of course these days, it no longer is.

I guess I am taking you on a bit Dan, simply to say: It isn't "right" because it isn't, and really, it should be that simple.

 

[Dan Feldman]

Jesus, we're going in circles here. One more time, if you sign up to work a game the right thing to do is work and not cheer, which not only distracts everyone else working, could very well distract you too. I don't know how many times I've seen a high school scoreboard operator forget to stop the clock because he was still complaining about a referees call or boasting about the play before.

And the school, doesn't have a duty to sports writers, but they have a duty to fans and boosters to help their teams get covered and covered as well as possible. And, like I said, if I'm covering a game it's not just ideal working conditions for me, it's also for their own people and visiting employees from the other school and conference officials and those pro scouts who might help their players get into the NFL, etc.

I think imagining the high school example will eliminate a lot of the periphery points that aren't at the heart of what I'm talking about. Would you really not cover a high school if it allowed cheering in the press box?

 

[lcjjdnh]

You know what I'm missing as I move into curmudgeonhood? And Dan, I'm really not much knocking you as lamenting the continued loss of ... something.

I miss the days where more things were done simply "because," because that's the way it's done in this world, and that's what professional and polite behavior is, and you didn't need a lawyer or a writ or a debate to explain why. Just "because."

This is one of those. You don't cheer in professional (meaning professionally run) press boxes because it's a work area and that's the way it is, or should be, and that should be enough. But of course these days, it no longer is.

I guess I am taking you on a bit Dan, simply to say: It isn't "right" because it isn't, and really, it should be that simple.

But isn't this sort of thinking precisely what is wrong with the newspaper business? We do things because that's the way we've always done things rather than questioning the premises on which they are based. Perhaps this is a relatively simple example not worth arguing about, but you seem to recognize this problems in other areas--for example, the whole gamer vs. column debate. If this board is any indication, too many people in this business want to appeal to authority rather than sound logic and reasoning. Troubling for a business whose job is partially to challenge The Power That Be.

 

[Dan Feldman]

You know what I'm missing as I move into curmudgeonhood? And Dan, I'm really not much knocking you as lamenting the continued loss of ... something.

I miss the days where more things were done simply "because," because that's the way it's done in this world, and that's what professional and polite behavior is, and you didn't need a lawyer or a writ or a debate to explain why. Just "because."

This is one of those. You don't cheer in professional (meaning professionally run) press boxes because it's a work area and that's the way it is, or should be, and that should be enough. But of course these days, it no longer is.

I guess I am taking you on a bit Dan, simply to say: It isn't "right" because it isn't, and really, it should be that simple.

That's an interesting response considering you advocated for allowing beat writers to include opinion and analysis in their articles. I'd guess, based on my experience pushing the same thing, you ran into a lot of rejection to that idea based simply on "because."

I'm not a fan of doing something just "because." A lot of rules in journalism are based on sound reasoning that is relevant today. Some aren't. I think we'd all be better off trying to explore which rules are worth preserving and which aren't.