Your Franchise Player(s)

Nope, I don't think Kiner is diminished at all. What he did in those seven years with the Pirates put him in the Hall of Fame. Bonds can't say that about his Pirates years.

But Bonds, as great as he was with the Pirates -- I think it gets overlooked, because of how much greater he was with the Giants (even before any steroid talk.) Like I said, he was the best player in the league from 1990-92 ... nobody else was close.

I can be convinced that Kiner's Pirate years were better than Bonds', because of the aforementioned 7 great years vs. 3-5 great years factor. But I don't think Bonds' years in Pittsburgh should get overlooked -- he was that good. Did he do it long enough, strictly with the Pirates, to win this debate? I don't know.

 

Kirby Puckett was robbed.

 

It all turned when Bill Madlock took out Fernandez at 2 breaking his elbow, meaning the immortal Manny Lee had to finish the season.

 

Indeed it did...indeed it did.

I'm sure BuckW will disprove me, but that last game of the season was one of the top 5 games I've ever seen.

Tanana and Key both throw complete games in a 1-0 Tigers victory. Man, I hated Jimmy Key and Dave Stieb...I still hate Dave Stieb.


EDIT: Actually, nobody can disprove me...it's my opinion. And, it's the best game I've ever seen.

 

I think so, too.

I just could not get it verified on the net.

 

I'm not saying Bonds' stint in Pittsburgh was bad. Obviously, winning a pair of MVPs and leading that team into the NLCS those three years -- even overlooking that awesome arm to nail Sid Bream at the plate (even I liked that scene at that time; still do) -- proves that. It's just that the power numbers and the fear instilled 60 feet, 6 inches away, grew so much in San Francisco. I think Bonds transformed -- no pun intended -- into this mythical creature because he did so well through the next 14 or 15 years, that the seven seasons with the Pirates began to look inflated.

Had he stayed in Pittsburgh for the final 15 seasons, even at his Pittsburgh power pace, I think he'd slide easily into the third or even second spot. But, in my opinion, I think what Kiner did -- and I'll point to leading the National League in home runs during his first seven seasons (which will probably never be done again, thanks to the expanded home run numbers and the fact it's so unusual and tough -- Babe Ruth led the league six straight seasons from '26-'31) -- is truly incredible and pushes him past Bonds, no matter how many stolen bases they each had.

 

Jimmy Key? What's he like, 45?

 

Damn you to hell.

 

26

 

You're better than that, BuckDub.

 

He is all that is awful.

 

That we can.