Writers want a rematch, Coaches do not.

[Mystery_Meat]

I think the problem is we've let this go from "national championship game" to "Ohio State versus best team to not play them". If Michigan is the second best team in the nation, and you can make a very viable argument in that direction, then yes, let it play. This whole "deserves a shot" notion brings to mind images of school marms making sure all the kiddies get their turn on the see-saw. There's plenty of teams that "deserve" a shot -- USC-ND winner, Florida-Arkansas winner, Boise State, heck, even West Virginia should they win out. But the idea is to match the two best teams in the country, and if that means Ohio State-Michigan II, then so be it.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

I think the problem is we've let this go from "national championship game" to "Ohio State versus best team to not play them". If Michigan is the second best team in the nation, and you can make a very viable argument in that direction, then yes, let it play. This whole "deserves a shot" notion brings to mind images of school marms making sure all the kiddies get their turn on the see-saw. There's plenty of teams that "deserve" a shot -- USC-ND winner, Florida-Arkansas winner, Boise State, heck, even West Virginia should they win out. But the idea is to match the two best teams in the country, and if that means Ohio State-Michigan II, then so be it.

Game Over

 

[Cosmo]

PC, we've been having this discussion in I-AA (er, CS) circles, and there is a parallel. San Diego was whining and crying about not having a fair shot at the playoffs even if they were undefeated. Their man argument was "but we're undefeated!" and "we have the No. 1 offense in the country (easy to accomplish when you play nothing but non-scholarship schools, an NAIA and a DII).

The same sort of logic works with Boise State. I don't care if they finish undefeated. The schedule sucks. No Boise State has no control over that to a certain extent, and beating Oregon State was nice, but just because Boise State is undefeated doesn't mean the Broncos have any right of playing for the MNC.

The BCS championship is an event that only Notre Dame and the members of the Big East, Big 12, Pac-10, ACC and SEC play for. The rest of the schools know that going in. Until we get a playoff, that won't change.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

PC, we've been having this discussion in I-AA (er, CS) circles, and there is a parallel. San Diego was whining and crying about not having a fair shot at the playoffs even if they were undefeated. Their man argument was "but we're undefeated!" and "we have the No. 1 offense in the country (easy to accomplish when you play nothing but non-scholarship schools, an NAIA and a DII).

The same sort of logic works with Boise State. I don't care if they finish undefeated. The schedule sucks. No Boise State has no control over that to a certain extent, and beating Oregon State was nice, but just because Boise State is undefeated doesn't mean the Broncos have any right of playing for the MNC.

The BCS championship is an event that only Notre Dame and the members of the Big East, Big 12, Pac-10, ACC and SEC play for. The rest of the schools know that going in. Until we get a playoff, that won't change.

A team that beat USC. (Hi Songbird )

 

[Rufino]

The same sort of logic works with Boise State. I don't care if they finish undefeated. The schedule sucks. No Boise State has no control over that to a certain extent, and beating Oregon State was nice, but just because Boise State is undefeated doesn't mean the Broncos have any right of playing for the MNC.

The BCS championship is an event that only Notre Dame and the members of the Big East, Big 12, Pac-10, ACC and SEC play for. The rest of the schools know that going in. Until we get a playoff, that won't change.

That is the same Oregon State who beat the supposedly more worthy Trojans, right? Also, according to some folks here, none of the conferences you mentioned should get to play for the title, since it's supposed to be the Big Ten championship game.

 

[Cosmo]

Chuck: We get it. You think Michigan should get another shot. We get it.

 

[Columbo]

If Michigan doesn't get another chance, neither should UF or USC, who lost to inferior competition than the Wolverines did.

So who teams beat doesn't matter to you, only who they lose to?

When they are all in large, respected conferences? You bet your ass.

So non-confernece games shouldn't mean anything? SC beat the SEC West champ, the Big 12 North Champ and ND next week. Good wins trump good losses.

UF, USC and MICHIGAN all have good wins.

The loss is the determinant.

Michigan's non-conference with the exception of ND are shirt. Vandy, Ball State and Central Michigan. Pathetic. If SC wins out, SC goes.

I'm not disputing that.

But it is stupid.

And

That's like saying if two teams meet up in the regular season because that's how the schedule was made, they can't play against each other again in any bowl game?

While that's rare, Red, no one cares if Maryland and WVU see each other in the Gator Bowl after meeting in the regular season. As long as conferences have locked in deals with the bowls for lower level teams that's going to happen occasionally. In this case, the issue is that Michigan has had a recent shot at Ohio State and failed to beat them. Should other teams which have not had that chance with similar (or, if you look at games actually won instead of "good losses", better) credentials be denied a shot at the Buckeyes just because they and Michigan already played a good game?

Vegas gives 3 points for home field.

I'm guessing that the game is pick 'em at a neutral site.

 

[Mystery_Meat]

PC, we've been having this discussion in I-AA (er, CS) circles, and there is a parallel. San Diego was whining and crying about not having a fair shot at the playoffs even if they were undefeated. Their man argument was "but we're undefeated!" and "we have the No. 1 offense in the country (easy to accomplish when you play nothing but non-scholarship schools, an NAIA and a DII).

The same sort of logic works with Boise State. I don't care if they finish undefeated. The schedule sucks. No Boise State has no control over that to a certain extent, and beating Oregon State was nice, but just because Boise State is undefeated doesn't mean the Broncos have any right of playing for the MNC.

The BCS championship is an event that only Notre Dame and the members of the Big East, Big 12, Pac-10, ACC and SEC play for. The rest of the schools know that going in. Until we get a playoff, that won't change.

And San Diego has it in its power to get into the playoffs. You want to make the top 12 in the I-AA poll? PLAY SOMEBODY. It doesn't have to be Montana and Appy State and JMU or some low-tier I-A, but at least throw hands with teams that give out scholarships. Get a Big Sky or Gateway or Great West (while it lasts) program on the schedule. Beat someone, for the love of all that's tolerable. Then start bellyaching when you get stiff-armed.

I had heard they might join the Great West, but that conference might get killed in its infancy if the Dakota State twins bolt for the Gateway. But Azuza Pacific and Dixie State (which sounds more like a propane and propane accessories store) does not a I-AA playoff contender's slate make.

 

[Cosmo]

USC schedule:
09/02 at Arkansas (10-1) W 50-14
09/16 #19 Nebraska (8-3) W 28-10
09/23 at Arizona (6-5) W 20-3
09/30 at Wash St (6-6) W 28-22
10/07 Washington (5-7) W 26-20
10/14 Arizona St (6-5) W 28-21
10/28 at Oregon St (7-4) L 33-31
11/04 at Stanford (1-10) W 42-0
11/11 #21 Oregon (7-4) W 35-10
11/18 #17 California (8-3) W 23-9
11/25 #6 N Dame (10-1) 8:00 PM
12/02 at UCLA (6-5) 4:30 PM

Michigan schedule:
09/02 Vanderbilt (4-8) W 27-7
09/09 C Michigan (7-4) W 41-17
09/16 at #2 N Dame (10-1) W 47-21
09/23 Wisconsin (11-1) W 27-13
09/30 at Minnesota (6-6) W 28-14
10/07 Mich St (4-8) W 31-13
10/14 at Penn State (8-4) W 17-10
10/21 Iowa (6-6) W 20-6
10/28 N'western (4-8) W 17-3
11/04 Ball St (4-7) W 34-26
11/11 at Indiana (5-7) W 34-3
11/18 at #1 Ohio St (12-0) L 42-39

 

[Mystery_Meat]

09/30 at Wash St (6-6) W 28-22
10/07 Washington (5-7) W 26-20
10/14 Arizona St (6-5) W 28-21
10/28 at Oregon St (7-4) L 33-31

That's what bugs me about USC. They had that stretch where they looked very ordinary. Had Washington managed the clock better at the end, it might have won (I know, I know, if its and buts were candy and nuts, then Boots would ask for the buts back). A convincing win against Notre Dame might be enough to sway me. A less-than-convincing win tips the hand back in Michigan's favor.

 

[Clerk Typist]

Boise State beat Oregon State.
Oregon State beat USC.
USC beat Arkansas.
Arkansas beat Auburn.
Auburn beat Florida.
Ergo, Boise State is the only logical candidate to displace Michigan.
Well, no. But this may already be over even if USC wins out. Michigan's margin over USC is 0.0075 in the new BCS.
Forget that the coaches and Harris votes have USC second at the moment and look at the computers. Five of the six have Michigan ranked second. One of the six has USC ranked second. Michigan's margin over USC in the computer portion is 0.040.
Strength of schedule comes into play with the computers. Notre Dame will have played both Michigan and USC. UCLA is only 6-5. Is UCLA's record good enough to push the Trojans past Michigan, assuming USC beats Notre Dame?
USC's combined margin in the human polls is only .0174. While they're weighted more heavily than the computers in the BCS's formula, the computers are making the difference.
Even if USC and Florida win out, this may be over already. Same for Notre Dame and Arkansas, only twice over.
And here's something funny: Boise State is 12th in the coaches and Harris polls and in the computer ranking, but 11th in the BCS. How's that?

 

[PCLoadLetter]

I think the problem is we've let this go from "national championship game" to "Ohio State versus best team to not play them". If Michigan is the second best team in the nation, and you can make a very viable argument in that direction, then yes, let it play. This whole "deserves a shot" notion brings to mind images of school marms making sure all the kiddies get their turn on the see-saw. There's plenty of teams that "deserve" a shot -- USC-ND winner, Florida-Arkansas winner, Boise State, heck, even West Virginia should they win out. But the idea is to match the two best teams in the country, and if that means Ohio State-Michigan II, then so be it.

But the point is simply this: We already know Ohio State is better than Michigan. They proved it on the field. Either someone else takes a crack at OSU, or the "championship" game is pointless.