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Writer Cat Fight

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Boom_70, Apr 9, 2011.

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  1. typefitter

    typefitter Well-Known Member

    Can I get a ruling on the floor for the appropriate response to being called Jayson Blair?

    Am I allowed to be "angry and aggressive?" Am I allowed to take umbrage? Am I allowed to make a correction?

    Or would I appear then to be thin skinned? Or tacky? Or insecure?

    Should I just let it stand? Should I just be okay with some failure of a human being writing that I make stuff up?

    Please let me know. Thank you.
  2. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    You probably shouldn't abrogate, that's for sure.
  3. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    He should subjugate though.
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I thought those were both unfair.

    I suppose you have to decide if you actually believe anyone worth caring about believes either characterization.

    On the thread about Trump demanding Obama's birth certificate it was suggested that if you tell a lie about someone enough and they don't defend themselves people will tend to believe it. I think there is some truth to that.

    I know either of those charges would piss me off.

    But, I think enough people here think otherwise, and the ones that don't probably won't be convinced no matter what you say in response.

    And, if you get down in the gutter to fight with pigs, you're going to get dirty regardless of the outcome.

    So, I'd recommend that you let it go, though I'm not sure I'd be able to follow my own advise. It's much easier to say when you're watching from the sidelines.
  5. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    I remember one time some sock puppet newbie came on here and called me dickless. I assumed a defense wasn't really needed in that case. Proving the assertion wrong was something nobody would want.
  6. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    A lot of you are ignoring the bigger issue here, and it isn't the art-versus-trade discussion that Jones has attempted to spin in order to cover up his wrong-headedness.

    It's this:

    "If you don’t care whether your writing earns an audience, or money, or an award, then you will never, ever earn any of those things with your words. You will be a failure."

    I never would have jumped into the fray if not for the above graf. Who the fuck is Chris Jones to tell somebody that they will be a failure if they don't share his gnawing insecurity? That's bullshit. I could let the original issue slide. I think his way of thinking is pathetic. He doesn't. Whatever. But when you start telling impressionable young writers that they will be failures if they don't share a similar philosophy, you cross a line. Chris, you still have not addressed this issue. I know several writers with your exact job, writers who you desperately want to be grouped with, who do not give a flying fuck if they win an award for a story. And since they are twice as talented as you, and can by no reasonable measure be considered "failures," I can only conclude that the above sentences -- Again, "If you don’t care whether your writing earns an audience, or money, or an award, then you will never, ever earn any of those things with your words. You will be a failure" -- are complete fucking bullshit.

    I'm assuming you will not address this, and that you will fade back into your cyber Neverland, never to be heard from again, wrapped in the warm bubble of the kingdom you have constructed for yourself, content to preach your warped world view to aspiring writers and grad students without any fear of somebody calling you on your immense bullshit.

    Just know that silence in a court of law is similar to silence on a internet message board.
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure why you would get so worked up by that statement.

    So, he thinks that & you don't. Big deal.

    Is some impressionable writer going to read that and decide to walk away from the field because they don't feel that way and assume Jones must be right?

    I think that guy would be a loser.
  8. MrHavercamp

    MrHavercamp Member

    Jones, I haven't been with you on this one, but that wasn't right. Nobody should be compared to Blair unless they tried to do what he did. So, yes, you can respond (even angrily) to that one. Please don't yell at young Michelle Dean again, however.
  9. typefitter

    typefitter Well-Known Member

    You're very brave, daemon, a regular folk hero. Your crusade against my blog should earn you medals, totems erected in your honor. You jumped into the fray like a regular trenchman, your bayonet flashing, your blood pumping.

    You're calling me pathetic? Jesus. But here you go. This is what you're asking for, and I aim to please:

    "If you don't care whether your writing earns an audience, or money, or an award, then you will never, ever earn any of those things with your words. You will be a failure."

    You seem to be confusing the word "or" with the word "and."

    If you don't care whether your writing earns any of those things—and I'm talking about journalism here, not poetry, not screenwriting, not literature, but journalism—then you will not make it. That's a fact. That's a pure unavoidable fact of this business. Because it's a business. It's market-driven. It's customer-driven. That's how it works. And if your supremely talented friends tell you—when you beg them for crumbs of wisdom, which they brush off their table for you—that they have somehow made it without giving a shit about any of those things, they are either aberrations or liars.

    Now, let's get to the heart of the matter: you. I can't be certain why you didn't make it, because clearly you didn't—you know writers with my exact job, but you're not one of them, are you?

    Luckily, though, I have an idea.

    Maybe your friends are twice as talented as me, but I'll bet a considerable sum of money (because I care about money; I'd rather have it than not, which I know makes me crazy) that you're not one fucking eighteenth as good as the Mystery Them.

    I would also bet every penny I've ever earned that you would give a nut to have what I have.

    I'm sorry you're so sad. But daemon, don't blame me for your failings. Don't blame me that the blog I write for fun has a larger audience than you'll ever know.

    Oh, I know, brave, sweet daemon, your feelings were stung by what I wrote, and you're trying to make excuses—as you no doubt have for your entire life—as to why you didn't make it.

    I'll tell you why. Because you aren't good enough.

    And I know you're going to write, Oh no, I have made it! I'm really happy with my life! I'm better than you even! Look how angry you are! Look how insecure you are!

    But here I am, and I know you're not anywhere close to me. I know you're just another anonymous Internet gangster, like jgorden, your partner in pussydom, trying to make yourself feel better, trying to prove to all your online friends that you have big balls when it comes to picking fights when you know you'll never have to show your face or your name.

    But they know about you, too, daemon. We all know. We all know you didn't make it. We all know you advocated lying on this thread, the issue that you never addressed again.

    We all know you're a coward. We all know you're a twat.

    Now, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go sit with my wife on the couch and watch a movie. And after, I'm going to go to bed, and I'm going to wake up, and I'm going to be me, and you're still going to be you, and that will make me happier than you can ever imagine.

    Thank you.
  10. MartinonMTV2

    MartinonMTV2 New Member

    You're a dick. Thanks for proving it.
  11. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Well, now we really have a cat fight.

    I figured that because you took your time before responding you wouldn't lash out.

    I was wrong on that one.
  12. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    I don't think I need to say anything anymore, bud. For a guy who prides himself on "honesty" and "truth," you don't seem to react very well when confronted with it. Someday, when I don't have a name protect, or no longer care about protecting it, I'll shoot you an email so you can measure yours against mine. Until then, I'll let you be the one who makes an ass out of yourself in public.
    SnarkShark likes this.
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