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Wrestling agate question, ASAP

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by slappy4428, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. Corky Ramirez up on 94th St.

    Corky Ramirez up on 94th St. Well-Known Member

    I never understood the point of abbreviating the 'major' in major dec. Like leaving out the 'or' in major is going to make a huge difference on agate pages.

    We always use A pinned B 3:15; A dec. B 6-4; A major dec. B 12-1; A tech. fall B 17-1, 4:53 (don't forget the time on a technical fall!).
     
  2. Central-KY-Kid

    Central-KY-Kid Well-Known Member

    If that is the case "everyone not knowing scoring values," then you should be doing a running team points at then end of each match:

    WEST XX, EAST XX
    PODUNK -- Results from Tuesday's match at Cameron Indoor Stadium:
    103: Sammy Smith, W, def. Tommy Toyota, E, 1:03 (6-0)
    112: Frank Ford, E, def. Jimmy Jones, W, 16-4 (6-4)
    119: Timmy Thomas, W, def. Cameron Camry, E, 6-4, OT (9-4)

    If readers do not know the scoring values, then simply printing "decision" is not helping them out.

    If readers do not understand how many points a tech fall is worth, then what is the point of printing it (tech fall)?
     
  3. slappy4428

    slappy4428 Active Member

    I disagree. Point value is first and only. It's decided by points, not pin, so only the points are needed. Big difference between 25-10 and 15-0, even tho it's all worth 5 points.
     
  4. Central-KY-Kid

    Central-KY-Kid Well-Known Member

    What's the big difference? They're both worth the same.

    It'd be like making a big deal between:
    Player A winning a 6-0, 6-0 singles match in high school tennis, and
    Player B winning a 6-4, 0-6, 6-4 match.

    Unless you are in a tournament and it comes down to a tiebreaker of total games won out of total games played, Player A and Player B earned the same amount of points for their team in a weekday match: 1. The fact that Player A swept is nice, but it does NOT change the overall team/match score.

    If a 125-pounder wins 25-10 and the heavyweight wins 15-0, there is NOT a "big difference" because they both earned the same amount of points for their team (and since neither was on the losing end, the opposing team didn't score).
     
  5. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    I'd also put the time of the technical falls in there, too. There's a bg difference between 17-2 in 3:10 than 5:34; it's much more dominating.

    And the 25-10 and 15-0 is a lot different because, not only does it show the dominance, it expresses just how good a defensive wrestler the winner is. It's a lot harder to get a shutout in a tech. fall than giving up 10 points.
     
  6. Central-KY-Kid

    Central-KY-Kid Well-Known Member

    Mike,

    I'm with you on that. Like I said earlier, we always print the individual match final score or pinfall time (never did it for a tech fall than ended less than three periods, but never had a coach ask me to).

    Still, why would you need to say "15-0, 2:12, tech fall" because whether it is 15-0 or 25-10, it's still a tech fall.

    What I'm saying is the "15-0" or "25-10" needs to be there (and even the time of the tech fallshould be there), but the specific phrase "tech fall" does NOT unless you are doing a running score after each individual match.

    Is saying "Brown def. Smith, 0:48" really that much different from "Brown pinned Smith, 0:48?"

    The only other outcome which would involve a time would be a tech fall, and I'm sure you'd have the score of the tech fall (15-0 or 25-10) to show it was a tech fall.
     
  7. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    a wrestling agate thread that may see a second page ... sad because it's true.
     
  8. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    I understand your points. I just don't like it. In my opinion, when the reader skims through the agate, he or she won't want to think about what the point totals are -- say between major decision or technical falls -- or take the time to add them up in thought. Reading "major decision" seems like a smoother ride and gives a stronger character to the agate. But that's just my opinion.

    So long as I'm calling the shots, my writers will draw the agate in the following fashion:

    A.C. Slater (Bayside) tech. fall Marvin Nedick (Valley), 16-1, 3:56.
    Zack Morris (Bayside) pinned Melvin Nerdly (Chula Vista; Mario Lopez's actual high school, by the way), :12.
    Christy Barnes (Bayside) maj. dec. Stan Clegg (Valley), 10-1.
     
  9. Angola!

    Angola! Guest

    cy, there is a huge difference in the tennis results you mentioned. mikey, do you put the schools in parentheses? i like them separated by comma personally.
     
  10. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Not to be picky, but I like them abbreviated. ;)

    Bayside def. Valley, 54-39
    165: Morris (B) pinned Nerdly (V), 0:45; 275: Slater (B) tech. fall Nedick (V), 16-1, 3:36.
     
  11. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    We abbreviate them, too -- until the state tournament, that is. But for this example, I figured spelling them out would be ... better? I mean, come on, it's Bayside.

    Angola: I do prefer the commas, but it's my paper's style for the parentheses. And in a dual meet, I'd only identify the winner to save a little space. But, like above, not in tournament play.

    Another thing with the tech. falls-plus time: Think about the tournaments; you see a kid mow his first three opponents down in two periods before pinning the fourth in the finals. It looks a whole lot better than with no times, and it gives the reader a better feel for exactly how he performed.
     
  12. Mark2010

    Mark2010 Active Member

    Agate is all about abbreviations.

    d. tf. md. should suffice. Those who are interested will either know what they mean or ask someone.

    It's like ab, hr, sb, bb.
     
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