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With Democrats like this...

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by ifilus, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. wickedwritah

    wickedwritah Guest

    I hear crickets chirping ... good job, Chris.

    And Chris is right: Bush would beat Kerry like a drum today. Heck, J.C. Terry McAuliffe said so.
  2. Lamar Mundane

    Lamar Mundane Member

    If Kerry had been elected he'd be facing the same quagmire in Iraq. History will judge W by Iraq. It is his and his failure alone. With the exception of Supreme Court Justices, it is better politically for the Dems to have lost in 2004. Daddy tried to send his friends to DC to clean up another W failure but the Decider ignored it. Daddy got his Saudi oil buddies to bail out failed oil businesses, maybe they'll do it again.

  3. This can't pass unremarked.
    I asked for sources. I got some strange stuff about polls. OK, here's an actual source (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0204.green.html) that says that whole business about Bush not conducting his presidency by polls is, well, crap. I got some more horseshit historical analogies.I got a preposterous claim about the economy. (Really think it's better than it was in 1956 or 1957? The days when the modern American middle class was created?) I got a bunch of cheap website crap about all the news being bad or made-up, as though the people geting their asses shot off covering this clusterfuck don't count.
    It's like arguing with a guy who's read one book.

    More fun with numbers:
  4. I think you live in more of a time warp than even I believed.

    You really think things were better economically in this country in the mid 1950's than today?

    I find that a ridiculous position to take by the board poster most likely to wax eloquent about Bobby K weeping at the absolute poverty in the Appalachians or how about the economy of the separate drinking fountain and bathrooms in the South was such an evil blight on the soul of the American past. I'm sure those folks who live in the South or the Appalachians all long for the good ole days.

    I didn't quote any sources because once I read the Shirley Temple reference I couldn't take your request serious.

    Now that I see that you consider 1956 or 1957 to be better economies for the average American than today - I know I was right not to take you serious.
  5. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    Who said this?:

    "I was always determined, if fate ever gave us power, not to discuss these matters, but to make
    decisions. Understanding of such great affairs is not given to every one."
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Economically Bush is shitfucking the country, Chris. The current debt now stands at more than $8 trillion dollars. Eventually, we are going to suffer some very painful effects of that--and some other president will inevitably take the blame. Looking at the U.S. economy right now and patting Bush on the back as the steward of a good economy, is kind of like pulling all of your credit cards out of your pocket, maxing them out on luxury items and telling everyone that you're managing your finances so well that you're living better than ever. The guy cut taxes--not a bad thing in a vacuum--but moronic policy when you're increasing already out-of-control government spending and funding a very expensive war.
  7. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    Rags: The apologists will never acknowledge the truth of what you say. Their self-worth is too
    closely tied to history's verdict of this career screw-up.
  8. Ragu - if you or I had a $100,000 credit card bill - that would be cause for concern. Bill Gates with a $100,000 credit card bill - not so much. Our debt is at high levels - but our economy has NEVER been this big.

    Our debt as a percentage of GNP is at a very managable historical level. You can go ahead and look that up.
  9. Lamar Mundane

    Lamar Mundane Member

    Iraq and a $3 trillion boost in the national debt are W's legacies. Only a fiscally conservative, small-government neocon could turn a $250-billion surplus into a projected balanced-budget in 2012 and say we're in good financial standing.

    When the Chinese cash in our debt, California and Florida will be the Communist States of China.

    The economy is so strong that poverty levels have gone up every year W has been in office, median wages have stagnated. People are working harder, including greater productivity and bringing home the same or less than they were six years ago.

    The middle class is under seige with escalating college, insurance and oil prices. We can spend $2 billion a day in Iraq but not boost Pell Grants to a level that keeps up with college tuition that has increased by double digits in the past four years. MEanwhile the GOP has made it more expensive to take student loans thanks to increasing interest rates.

    thanks. Next time just say thank you Bill Clinton for 23 million jobs, 100,000 cops on the streets, decreasing violent crimes every year (back on the way up). Now everything that should be up is down and everything that should be down is up.
  10. [​IMG]
  11. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    In other words . . . you have nothing.

    But we knew that.
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Chris, That's a phantom argument. GDP is a measure of accumulated national wealth. I'm not talking about our accumulated national private and public debt. I'm talking about our government's public debt. Looking at that debt relative to our entire economy, obscures the point that the debt gets paid back by revenue the government brings in, not by the entire wealth accumulated by everything public and private. Unless Congress can somehow compel Bill Gates to hand over billions of dollars if our treasuries ever go flat, looking at our government debt as a percentage of GDP is a useless exercise.

    But I'll even play that game, for the sake of argument. Our debt is somewhere north of 65 percent of GDP and growing. Find me a private lender who would extend credit to someone leveraged that far beyond their means.
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