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Who will call out oil companies first?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by JayFarrar, May 16, 2007.

  1. statrat

    statrat Member

    Capping oil prices will not work. Neither will trying to tax the companies or the consumer. the companies will simply pass the cost from the tax onto the consumer, thus raising the price further. It would be best for us to seriously invest in alternative energy, while shifting as much oil production to the domestic front as much as possible in the interim. Only when we have control over our own energy needs can we contain reign in our energy costs.
     
  2. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    And how does the windfall tax get us any closer to energy independence? How does it make our enviornment cleaner and allow our national security to no longer be subject to the whims of men like Hugo Chavez? Making gas cheaper isn't the long term solution to any of those problems.

    If we go drastic and implement this tax, the market will react quickly. Customers will DEMAND high mileage vehicles. The auto manufacturers will need to develop new technologies just to survive. We need to bold and if that includes short-term pain, I can live with that.
     
  3. Birdscribe

    Birdscribe Active Member

    B.I.N.G.O.

    In the last 15 years, we've gone from 25 refineries to seven. Seven. And those refineries are in constant states of flux/repair, etc.

    This isn't all because of NIMBYdom, as MysteryMeat chimed in with on the other gas-price thread. Yes, you don't have communities beating down the door of oil company boardrooms demanding a refinery in their backyard. But that's not the whole reason.

    For that, you'd have to look at the rampant mergers in the industry: ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, BP and everyone else. A century ago -- in a far, far more lenient era for big business -- John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil was broken up.

    Now, we're building those relative monopolies back up again. Competition is erased every time these companies are allowed to merge. Meanwhile, the Justice Dept. spanks its pud and watches.
     
  4. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Doesn't matter, world's ending: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
     
  5. funky_mountain

    funky_mountain Active Member

    cuing carmine ragusa ...
     
  6. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    There are lots of alternatives.

    But not one will provide energy cheaper than oil. Not now, anyway. And not at the scale needed for this country. Sure, Iceland can use geothermal to supply a nation of 300,000. But there is no alternative to supply a nation of 300 million that will let you pay less than $3 to drive your car 20-50 miles.

    Any alternative would demand a short-term (or however long it takes) energy price hike until the alternative surpassed oil in efficiency. Are you willing to pay twice as much to power your car for the next 2, 5, 10 years to make that happen? Will you be happy with the styling and 90 hp of this "alternative" vehicle?

    And since "price" is what's driving the angiush, if the alternatives aren't cheaper, then alternatives aren't the answer. One day, obviously. But not in 2007.

    In 1980 gasoline was $1.30 a gallon, and a Z car was $12,000

    Today gasoline is $3 a gallon, and the Z car is $40,000.

    Why the outrage over one and not the other?

    Sure, you can buy a $15,000 car. Many on here do that.

    And you can also buy a car that gets 50 miles to the gallon. Hardly anyone on here does that. And having read the various "driving pet peeves" on here, I doubt very many on here maximize their gas mileage, either. Hard to do that when you're flashing your headlights so those "slow" 65 mph drivers will get out of your fast lane.

    There are alternatives . . . maybe not in what you put in your tank, but in what you buy and how you drive.
     
  7. ThomsonONE

    ThomsonONE Member

    We in America do not have a gasoline shortage. There is more gasoline available than we know what to do with, we are drowning in a sea of gasoline. The oil companies will set prices as high as the market will bear, period. Any time you hear someone tell you that supply and demand is driving this price spike in gas, they are either lying to you, or clueless.

    In very condensed terms, supply and demand means that when demand outstrips supply, buyers will bid up the price of that good in order to remain satisfied. This is what the media keep repeating. The fallacy when it applies to gas is that there are currently NO buyers unable to purchase all the gas they want. I have yet to see a gas station with a "Sorry we have no gas" sign out in front. Every gas station in the country has full tanks. There is no shortage.

    Imagine gas is oranges. Growers can grow 100 oranges, and there are 100 people that want 1 orange each. Everyone is satisfied and the market clears at say $1 per orange. Now imagine there is a frost, or a fungus that restricts supply, so there are only 50 oranges to go around. 100 people still want one, but only 50 people can get one, so the 50 people willing to pay the most for an orange will be satisfied, the other 50 go without, and the market clears at a price higher than the original $1. This is classic supply and demand.

    What is missing when you look at gas? There are currently ZERO consumers that can't get gas. Therefore there is no shortage. The reports about refining capacity are all bullshit, the price is increasing because the oil cartel is acting in it's own best interest, without regard to the ramifications on the greater society. There is no substitute for gas. Those two things are why utilities are regulated, and why gas needs to be regulated as well.
     
  8. expendable

    expendable Well-Known Member

    Something like that would throw our economy into the toilet.
     
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