Who ordered the execution of Pat Tillman?

Honestly, I don't see any possible way it went that way. I think that really is tinfoil hat territory. The military had nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose with Tillman's death. And Tillman wasn't about to speak out against the war (and worth noting, he was in Afghanistan, not Iraq -- a far more justifiable conflict at the time). He wouldn't even discuss his enlistment with anyone in the media.

Fragging makes all kind of sense, though -- and would explain the horribly clumsy military cover-up to make the death appear to have come in more "heroic" circumstances.

 

I don't think that fragging, as I know it, would work because Tillman was a corporal.
Fragging is generally associated with killing superiors, unless I am horribly, horribly wrong.
And it should be noted that my knowledge of fragging comes from Animal House and the ROTC guy who was killed in Vietnam by his soldiers.

 

Yes, my friend, it is TFH land.

Now I might be able to swallow a theory involving another Ranger angry at the fame or fortune Tillman had. But I can't believe it was a hit.

Do you think the Taliban attack was staged to provide cover for the hit job? Was everybody in the squad in on hit?

 

I believe he was some sort of platoon leader, but in general fragging just pertains to intentionally killing someone on your side.

 

I don't think it was a hit, but given the way the Army seemed to cover up/mess up the investigation, it certainly raises red flags. I'm certainly not completely buying their explanation.

 

It reminds me of the Baylor deal. Where Bliss certainly didn't have Dennehy killed, but he also sure did fuck up the handling of it afterward. I think the government was trying to keep public opinion from turning against the troops, and so they tried to cover up the gory details.

I don't, for one minute, think it was a hit.

 

The M-16 fires three-round bursts, so it only takes one pull of the trigger to put three bullets in someone's skull. But there are plenty of other issues here, apparently.

 

Has anyone here read Mary Tillman's book "Boots on the Ground at Dusk."?

 

Not trying to be a dick, but let me do a little Army tidy-up, here.

Tillman was a specialist when he was killed, then promoted posthumously to corporal. BIG difference. Both E-4s with the same pay, but a corporal is a non-commissioned officer, a rank that comes with leadership and supervisory responsibilities. Specialist Jones is nothing but a senior Joe (Army lingo for grunt, soldier, enlisted, etc.). As for the fragging, anyone can be fragged by anyone else, regardless of rank.

Platoon leaders are junior officers, either first lieutenants (0-2, or recently promoted to captain (normally the case) ). Tillman wasn't an officer; he was a specialist, one who is honing his craft and learning to take the leadership reins, if you will.

Tillman's units were most likely using the M4, a carbine variant of the M-16. Mostly the same characteristics, but some slight differences that would be lost on you guys. Yes, the rifle does fire in three-round bursts. However, holding a tight pattern while firing in the three-round burst mode is EXTREMELY difficult. I know this because in a past life I was an Army weapons instructor and armor. I also have been trained in long-distance engagement, if you will. At 10 yards, I'm not sure I could hold a three-round burst into a tight "group" (that's what we call shot patterns). And I can shoot better than probably 85 percent of the Army, maybe even 90. A young soldier killing a fellow soldier in cold blood in a war environment? I doubt it very seriously. Just too much anxiety and too little concentration (IMO) to make that shot.

On the other hand, have I seen the ballistics? No. Could it be done? Yes, but the conditions would have to be right, and I doubt they were in this case.

Hope that clears up a few things.

Now, reasons for fragging your fellow soldier? Well, those in the infantry -- especially Joes (or, junior enlisted) -- have a pretty good reputation for roughhousing. Tillman, however, was probably a little more refined than the typical infantry specialist. You know, being a millionaire, and all. Hell, who knows. He could've been fucking some kid's wife back at Lewis. We don't understand the dynamics at work in that platoon, so no one can make an educated guess.

 

Thanks for the clarification, 3BF.

The impression I've had regarding Tillman is that he was extremely aggressive, extremely loud, supremely confident in himself -- even by NFL (or, I suppose, Army Ranger) standards. Great thing in a football teammate... but something I think could wear very thin among soldiers in tight contact 24 hours a day.

 

I would not be shocked if this turned out to have some bearing on what happened.

 

Great post, TBF, thanks for the info.

Personally, I think he was fragged for the reasons PC states, but to go 180 degrees for a moment on possible reasons for Tillman getting shot in the head, is it possible he was mortally wounded, dying in agony, and one of his fellow soldiers put him out of his misery?

I know that doesn't explain THREE shots to the head, but could it have been some sort of, "if one person does it, we all do it" type of thing? Without knowing all of the details, is that far-fetched?