Who is the best college football coach? Who is the best NFL coach?

That's fine, but Belichick played his players down the stretch in "meaningless games" and Fisher has stated plans to do so in such a scenario. Not playing your guys is a decision made by the coach. Belichick's guys were ready down the stretch (and before anyone mentions a "Super Bowl choke," they did take a lead in the final moments and lost on the flukiest of drives by the Giants) and Fisher's guys will potentially be ready as well. Your basically refuting my claim that Dungy's son didn't affect the team by saying that his poor coaching philosophy had more to do with it, which I would think nullifies him from the discussion.

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Wait ... James Dungy committed suicide, right?
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Yeah sorry, that's a stupid mistake by me, but my basic point remains the same.

 

When did a Fisher playoff team with a superstar QB, superstar receivers and an All-Pro RB choke? Because that's what keeps happening in Indy. Fisher got his team to the Super Bowl in ’99 after beating the Jaguars in the AFC championship game. The Jaguars came into that game 15-2, so they lost three games the entire season. Wanna guess which team beat them all three times. Hint: It was the one with McNair at QB (good, but not great), Eddie George at RB (good, but not great) and WhoThe HellKnows at one WR spot and WhoThe HellCares at the other one. What did Dungy do in the playoffs with one of the top defenses in the league from 99-2001? And with a sure-fire HOF at QB, at least one sure-fire HOF at receiver and two different Top 10 RBs, he's choked more often than not in Indy. Yes, some of that blame goes to Manning, but when it comes to big games, he and Dungy are a perfect match. Hell, the Colts lost in last year's playoffs to a team coached by Norv Turner with its second-string QB in the game.

 

Um, please tell me how many of Dungy's playoff losses came to inferior teams?

Like that 2005 loss to the Steelers -- who by the way won the Super Bowl -- they were only a wild card team because they had a run of about six weeks where they were all banged up and had tons of injuries. They were healthy and focused for the playoffs.

He lost how many times to New England? Twice at least?

Yes, the loss last year to San Diego was a bad one -- but this idea that he somehow underachieves because he loses to Super Bowl winning teams is ridiculous.

If you want to tell me that the Colts in 2005 were the best team in the league and didn't get it done -- I might buy it though I think the Steelers were a more complete team and that team didn't have Joseph Addai, or any run game for that matter.

Other than that, there hasn't been another year I can think of where Dungy had the best and most complete team in the NFL and didn't get it done. He built the Bucs, he had a lot of great defenses with the Bucs -- he didn't ever have a complete team.

 

He got his team within a Theismann All-Pro defensive play from an NFL title with David Woodley as his starting quarterback. He had an undefeated season with a backup QB.

Dilfer looks like Joe Montana compared with the late Woodley.

Oh, and the diarrhea re: Marino "embracing" a running game?

Find me Terrell Davis.... find me Joseph Addai.

Puhhhlease.

Delvin Williams set the club record for rushing yards in a season with 1,258 in 1978.

No one came close to even that somewhat paltry figure during Marino's career.

Here are the leading Dolphins rusher in each of Marino's seasons
(Rank, Year, Name, Yards, YPC)

1. 1996, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, 1,116, 3.6
2. 1998, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, 960, 3.6
3. 1992, Mark Higgs, 915, 3.6
4. 1991, Mark Higgs, 905, 3.9
5. 1997, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, 892, 3.2
6. 1995, Bernie Parmalee, 878, 3.7
7. 1994, Bernie Parmalee, 868, 4.0
8. 1990, Sammie Smith, 831, 3.7
9. 1986, Lorenzo Hampton, 830, 4.5
10. 1983, Andra Franklin, 746, 3.3
11. 1993, Mark Higgs, 693, 3.7
12. 1985, Tony Nathan, 667, 4.7
13. 1989, Sammy Smith, 659, 3.3
14. 1987, Troy Stradford, 619, 4.3
15. 1984, Woody Bennett, 606, 4.2
16. 1999, J.J. Johnson, 558, 3.4
17. 1988, Lorenzo Hampton, 414, 3.5

 

And wait a second -- I just looked into Jeff Fisher's career......

He shouldn't even be in the top six or seven on this list of best coaches in the NFL....

He has been the coach since 1994 -- He has a record of 123-99 -- (a winning percentage of a very pedestrian .554, (a full 100 points worse than Dungy) and that is AFTER a 10-0 streak to start this year).

Assuming he makes the playoffs this year -- that will be SIX trips to the playoffs in 15 years as a coach. That means nine times he didn't even make the playoffs (Dungy by the way will be 11-for-13 in playoff appearances after this year).

Again, assuming he wins a Division Title, that will only be his third in 15 years as a coach. THIRD -- or one more than second-year coach Mike Tomlin will have at the end of this season and four less than Tony Dungy has in two more seasons......

He is 5-5 in the playoffs -- if you take away his 3-1 during the Super Bowl year, he is 2-4 and he hasn't won a playoff game since 2003. (Dungy won the Super Bowl in 2006 and even prior to that had won a playoff game in 2004 -- or more recently than Fisher)

And did I mention that Dungy's Colts are 8-3 versus Fisher's Titans and one of Fisher's three wins came when the Colts played for a half and rested all of its key players because the division title was already in hand?

Again, Jeff Fisher is a good coach not a great coach and anyone who is putting him the class of Tony Dungy (the sixth fastest coach to reach 100 career wins, , Bill Belicheck or Mike Shanahan is delusional, there is simply no objective way to put him up in the top five.

The guy has won next to nothing, and he has had some very good teams -- correct me if I am wrong but didn't he have Steve McNair and Eddie George together for like eight years or something -- but this lovefest for him is just plain silly.

 

(Yes, I read the post above me. Anyway.)

It's sort of a shame this is such an easy choice, on both sides.

Fisher/Saban.

 

An interesting thing about Saban: Two of his former assistants, Jimbo Fisher and Will Muschamp, have those coach-in-waiting deals at major programs (Fisher at Florida State, Muschamp at Texas). The more you think about those coaches' national profiles before working for Saban and then again after, the more this speaks volumes, in my opinion.

 

Ty Willingham and Rod Marinelli.

Oh wait ....

 

That is precisely when the team needs a good head coach, unfortunately Dungy came up short again. Dungy isn't even on the short list of the best in the NFL.

Fisher was lucky with the homerun throwback play, but he had the foresight to have his team prepared to execute it when they needed it. That's good coaching.

 

Not BB. More than Fisher.

I said BB was canned to show Coughlin almost being fired last year was meaningless.

 

I meant bad times in terms of losing. And are you going to claim that Dungy lost his team that year?

Had it not been for an absolute fluke of a play, Jeff Fisher would have been outcoached by Wade Freaking Phillips in the 1999 AFC Wild Card game. His loss to the Raiders in the 2002 AFC Title Game was much more egregious than any Dungy post-season loss.

Dungy has had nine playoff losses. Four of those were to teams who went on to win the Super Bowl and another was to the 97 Packers.

 

What are you talking about? They lost to the Steelers because they didn't have a run game -- something they addressed in the next draft and magically turned into a Super Bowl championship the next year.

And Belicheck is the only coach in the NFL with a clear and definitive argument that he is a better coach than Dungy. Mike Shanahan, perhaps, but that's it.

And this Jeff Fisher argument is just plain stupid. I know he is a nice guy, the media likes him but I am not sure how he became George Halas the second because has won next to nothing and his one playoff run was jumpstarted by a lucky play that should have been over turned.

Jeff Fisher is not among the top five, six, seven coaches in the NFL, and there is no reasonable argument that can be made that he is.

He is somewhere in the neighborhood of Wade Phillips -- and before you start frothing at the mouth, please check the records of these two.