Whitlock Hits Another Out of The Park

Your ego is truly comical. I was out to lunch (literally). But if you think you ran me out of here and that helps you feel better about yourself, go ahead.

 

Thank you for trying to answer the hip hop question.

To be honest, when I see Gilbert A. or Mos Def or Dave Chappelle I do not think gangster. I cannot say the same for 50 Cent, Pacman or AI (although, the way he is handling the Denver trade is really making me think higher of him as a player and a person).

Maybe it's the body language and not the dress. I don't know. That's why I asked the question earlier.

As far as "clean" rap or hip hop, I don't know. When I listen to U2 or Modest Mouse or bands that I like, I really do not care if they are talking about politics or other issues. That does not turn me off to the song. If the lyrics are so rough that I think twice if I have a young person in the car, then I do not like it. I will say, that if music starts to get religious based, I will turn it off. Maybe that relates to rap and hip hop? I don't know.

 

I don't think hip hop (or rap) is indefensible, but in watching some of the coverage, it's clear to me that the people diagnosing the issue (save maybe Jason) haven't listened to a rap song in years. If ever.

For one, they keep using the term "gangsta rap," which I thought all but died in the early to mid 90s. If you take a look at the Billboard top-10, rappers are certainly misogynistic, but they are mostly rapping about things (diamonds, liquor, cars, cash). Case in point, the very popular "This Why I'm Hot," which is about nothing. The videos are horrendous, for sure. But nothing made in the last 10 years comes even close to Ice T's "Cop Killa" or some of the stuff Ice Cube and NWA said during their heydey. Ludacris' "Move Bitch," which is just about feeling pissed off, can't touch Dre's "N***a Wit' A Gun," which was out in 1992.

Over the last few years, Nelly, Eminem, Lil' Jon, 50 Cent have been among the top money-makers in rap. But would you consider any of those guys "gangsta rappers?" Not sure if I would. I'll give you Lil' Wayne or Birdman, maybe.

So I'm wondering if the misogyny is worse than the gunplay.

 

Thank you for the link, but it did say...

"While many agencies report supplemental data on homicides, much of the data concerning offenders may not be reported because no suspects were identified. The most significant problem in using SHR data to analyze offender characteristics is the sizable and growing number of unsolved homicides contained in the data file. Ignoring unsolved homicides, of course, would seriously understate calculated rates of offending by particular subgroups of the population, distort trends over time among these same subgroups, and bias observed patterns of offending to the extent that the rate of missing offender data is associated with offender characteristics. "

 

That is interesting, although I might point out a couple possible flaws making that analysis misleading: 1) Those rates are calculated based upon conviction statistics. However, as the recent 60 Minutes piece illustrated, it has become more difficult in recent years to achieve convictions in predominately African-American areas due in large part to the pervasive hip hop induced no-snitching culture. In many areas most crimes never even get reported now, much less lead to arrest and conviction. Thus, it could be a case where about the same number of crimes are being committed but fewer are being reported and then successfully prosecuted. 2) The rates spiked (for nearly all groups) at the peak of early 90s crack epidemic, and dropped for nearly all groups once that epidemic was brought under control--a cause seperate from hip hop. However, your own graph indicates that the African-American crime rate has sharply surged upward the last 3-4 years. We've not had a new crack epidemic to explain it (and the most analogous epidemic we have had, Meth, impacts the rural white community as much or more than any other), so what explains that recent spike?

 

Good points. I do not listen to enough rap to notice this. But isn't "street cred" still a respected trait to have for a rapper? Does "street cred" get earned by committing crimes or being hard a member of a gang or a former member of a gang?

 

But you willingly accept these statistics without question?


Given these staggering stats its hard to imagine how gun vilolence could be glorified in hip hop music.

Homicide Offenders by Race


White Black Other
1976 9,165 10,961 226
1977 9,527 10,620 241
1978 9,919 10,870 193
1979 11,083 11,838 265
1980 12,495 13,309 396
1981 11,692 12,421 362
1982 11,160 11,326 393
1983 10,505 10,102 400
1984 10,635 9,339 363
1985 10,242 9,705 425
1986 10,747 10,963 468
1987 10,569 10,724 411
1988 10,194 12,252 385
1989 10,611 12,669 428
1990 11,825 14,235 404
1991 11,759 15,966 543
1992 11,083 14,861 604
1993 11,208 15,814 615
1994 11,101 14,803 587
1995 10,582 12,990 640
1996 9,807 12,004 599
1997 9,106 10,920 578
1998 9,235 9,567 519
1999 8,012 8,850 541
2000 8,016 9,235 490
2001 8,282 9,423 461
2002 8,478 9,308 462
2003 8,280 9,574 560
2004 8,521 9,223 453

 

I trust that these are the numbers that they are given. I feel though that there are probably that many unsolved black homicides each year. For every 10 solved, 10 go unsolved due to the "no snitch" mindset. I would say for every 10 white cases solved probably 1 or 2 are unsolved. So no, I do not feel this number is a true representation, but it would still distress me if I were a member of the black community.

 

Kanye West was raised in the upper middle class for most of his life.

 

No, jgmac, I wouldn't "willingly accept those statistics without question" either. I assume their reliability is also skewed by the same factors indicating that a larger percentage of such crimes are going unprosecuted recently for lack of cooperative witnesses. Unfortunately, that would suggest that a more accurate count would be even more alarming.

 

It's not my graph, it belongs to the Department of Justice. And they have hundreds of 'em posted over at the site I linked.

If we're going to question the validity of the available statistics, then I think we have to question the causal link between lyrics and behavior. Was there a single assertion in the 60 Minutes piece that definitively linked Stop Snitchin' to some new pattern of behavior? Or are we just inferring the one from the other because it seems likely?

As to whether or not there's an explanation for any recent spike in crime, two thoughts: First, if we're not going to trust the numbers, why assume the spike is correct? Second, if Mr. Whitlock's going to hang the entirety of his argument on a known and proveable link between rap lyrics and violent behavior - whether asserted by himself or CBS News - he's going to have to root around in some sociological stats like these to make his case. Otherwise it's all speculative.

 

JGMac, As for evidence of a "causal link" in the 60 Minutes piece (Did you see it?), I suppose you could point to the evidence presented by the interviewed criminologist and police chief indicating that indeed the number of crimes unprosecutable because of lack of reporting and cooperative witnesses has dramatically surged since the "no snitching" culture preached by hip hop artists became so mainstream in the community. I suppose you could also point to the interview with the children indicating (by my rough recollection) that the kids in the community essentially live by the code preached by their hop hop heroes and that none of them would ever talk to the police regardless of what crimes were committed because of the no-snitching code. That is hardly definitive evidence, and it may have flaws, but it IS evidence.