What makes anyone think Roe v. Wade will be overturned?

Yawn · May 16, 2008

Cadet said:

Where to begin, where to begin. How about here:

zagoshe said:

All I am saying is I am OK with equality as long as we make those equations closer to equal -- there isn't much you can do if a woman wants to have an abortion and the man doesn't (though a $10,000 payment to the man for pain and suffering would work)
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So now you want to put a price tag on things? A man gets $10K for pain and suffering if a pregnancy he helped create is terminated without his permission? Fine, let's add some more dollar amounts. How about <a href="http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp">$269,520</a>, the amount to raise a child from birth to age 17 (that's not including college!). Or how about <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0950920220080509">$124,280</a>, the estimated value per year for the unpaid job of being a stay-at-home mother (that figure is almost $75,000 for a working mother). What about <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0950920220080509">$449,501</a> -- the estimated loss of wage over a three-year period that a working mother will pay as a "mommy penalty." Finally, how about <a href="http://www.childsupportoptions.org/links/default.htm">$102 Billion</a>, which is the amount of uncollected child support in this country.

Thing is, I've known far more women who have NOT terminated their pregnancies and have struggled with "deadbeat dads" and little-to-no child support than I have known men who have been made to suffer because of a terminated pregnancy. Plus those women get to face a double standard: They're called murderers if they abort, they're called whores and welfare queens if they don't. I'm not saying there aren't men who are affected by abortion, but there are far more women who bear the multi-faceted burden of unplanned pregnancy.

Speaking of bearing the burden, Buckdub hit the nail on the head. When was the last time you shopped for birth control, zagoshe? Did you know the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/health/22contraceptives.html">cost of birth control pills has quadrupled</a> in the last year? That other methods, such as the contraceptive patch or the shot, may not be covered by insurance?

And the diaphragm method, which you put at a cost of $1 per week, is not that cheap. There is the initial doctor's visit for fitting, which can range from $50 to $250, depending on insurance; there is the cost of the diaphragm itself, which is $30-50; then there is the cost of the spermicidal jelly/foam/cream, which is $10-20 per unit. If the diaphragm is torn or damaged during those two years, it must be replaced at the cost of another one and another doctor's visit. Plus, using a non-hormonal birth control can mean heavier periods and more premenstrual effects, so factor in an additional $15 per month for tampons and Midol. All this for a birth control method that is only 80 percent effective, not to mention bulky and messy? No thanks.

The burden for birth control in this country has always fallen on women, just like the majority of child rearing obligations. Things are getting significantly better as a new generation reaches adulthood, but it's not perfect.

And this is why many women, including myself, take it pretty personally when some man who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about tries to dictate to me what I can and can't do with my body, whether they are dictating via the insurance company, via reproductive laws, via the availability of medical services or by attempting to foster a culture of shame and hostility regarding female sexuality.
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I didn't think determination of right and wrong was based on what happens a majority of the time. A man gets the raw deal; he deserves the same equal treatment/due process for recovery as the woman who battles a deadbeat dad. Anything less is a hypocritical contradiction.

Tom Petty · May 16, 2008

Yawn said:

Cadet said:

Where to begin, where to begin. How about here:

zagoshe said:

All I am saying is I am OK with equality as long as we make those equations closer to equal -- there isn't much you can do if a woman wants to have an abortion and the man doesn't (though a $10,000 payment to the man for pain and suffering would work)
Click to expand...

So now you want to put a price tag on things? A man gets $10K for pain and suffering if a pregnancy he helped create is terminated without his permission? Fine, let's add some more dollar amounts. How about <a href="http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp">$269,520</a>, the amount to raise a child from birth to age 17 (that's not including college!). Or how about <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0950920220080509">$124,280</a>, the estimated value per year for the unpaid job of being a stay-at-home mother (that figure is almost $75,000 for a working mother). What about <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0950920220080509">$449,501</a> -- the estimated loss of wage over a three-year period that a working mother will pay as a "mommy penalty." Finally, how about <a href="http://www.childsupportoptions.org/links/default.htm">$102 Billion</a>, which is the amount of uncollected child support in this country.

Thing is, I've known far more women who have NOT terminated their pregnancies and have struggled with "deadbeat dads" and little-to-no child support than I have known men who have been made to suffer because of a terminated pregnancy. Plus those women get to face a double standard: They're called murderers if they abort, they're called whores and welfare queens if they don't. I'm not saying there aren't men who are affected by abortion, but there are far more women who bear the multi-faceted burden of unplanned pregnancy.

Speaking of bearing the burden, Buckdub hit the nail on the head. When was the last time you shopped for birth control, zagoshe? Did you know the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/health/22contraceptives.html">cost of birth control pills has quadrupled</a> in the last year? That other methods, such as the contraceptive patch or the shot, may not be covered by insurance?

And the diaphragm method, which you put at a cost of $1 per week, is not that cheap. There is the initial doctor's visit for fitting, which can range from $50 to $250, depending on insurance; there is the cost of the diaphragm itself, which is $30-50; then there is the cost of the spermicidal jelly/foam/cream, which is $10-20 per unit. If the diaphragm is torn or damaged during those two years, it must be replaced at the cost of another one and another doctor's visit. Plus, using a non-hormonal birth control can mean heavier periods and more premenstrual effects, so factor in an additional $15 per month for tampons and Midol. All this for a birth control method that is only 80 percent effective, not to mention bulky and messy? No thanks.

The burden for birth control in this country has always fallen on women, just like the majority of child rearing obligations. Things are getting significantly better as a new generation reaches adulthood, but it's not perfect.

And this is why many women, including myself, take it pretty personally when some man who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about tries to dictate to me what I can and can't do with my body, whether they are dictating via the insurance company, via reproductive laws, via the availability of medical services or by attempting to foster a culture of shame and hostility regarding female sexuality.
Click to expand...

I didn't think determination of right and wrong was based on what happens a majority of the time.
Click to expand...

and this explains plenty about your idiotic views on life.

Yawn · May 16, 2008

You're obsessed.

Tom Petty · May 16, 2008

Yawn said:

You're obsessed.
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"I didn't think determination of right and wrong was based on what happens a majority of the time."

and you're not very bright.

Yawn · May 16, 2008

Of course, you can't read something in context, or see sarcasm when it slaps you in the face.

Which just goes to show your head is numb.

I've got to spray my ass. Like a dog, you pick up the scent and follow along. You're incapable of anything above childlike behavior.

Tom Petty · May 16, 2008

Yawn said:

Of course, you can't read something in context, or see sarcasm when it slaps you in the face.

Which just goes to show your head is numb.

I've got to spray my ass. Like a dog, you pick up the scent and follow along. You're incapable of anything above childlike behavior.
Click to expand...

"I didn't think determination of right and wrong was based on what happens a majority of the time."

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What makes anyone think Roe v. Wade will be overturned?

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