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What happened? Joba out of Yanks rotation?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by thebiglead, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Ruth-Gehrig

    Ruth-Gehrig Member

    I like the idea of using Joba as Rivera's setup man much like Rivera was Wetteland's setup man.
    The main reason the Yanks haven't won a World Series since 2001 is their lack of setup men.
    It's similar to the Braves inability to develop or acquire a closer during their 15-year or so run when they won just one World Series. The Braves would have won several more if they had that final piece.
    The Yanks reportedly have several incredible arms in the minors that will be ready to make impact soon. That is in addition to Hughes and Kennedy, and I liked Kennedy's body language on the mound last season.
    Mussina sucks and should be sent to pasture -- period.
    He has been weak since at least 2004. It became incredibly apparent to me when he threw six perfect innings against the Red Sox in the ALCS in 2004, and then got shelled in the seventh.
    It has gotten progressively worse. He had trouble getting through the fifth from 2005-06, and last year he was lucky if he could make into the third -- at best. Just dump him. He's done.
    Bottom line, the Yanks have no chance if they don't have setup men. They haven't acquired any competent ones during the offseason. Thus, until they do, there is no other choice but Joba; furthermore, he thrived in that role last season.
    If it's not broke, leave it alone!
  2. hockeybeat

    hockeybeat Guest

    Boom, I agree with you. If Joba's in the 1996 Mo role, he learns what it takes to be a top-flight reliever and closer, especially with the Yankees. Then, following Rivera's retirement, he can seamlessly fill the closer's role.
  3. wickedwritah

    wickedwritah Guest

    Shockey, you forget that Papelbon was supposed to be in the rotation this year. That was partially predicated on Lester's cancer. Fortunately, they didn't need him in the rotation; Tavares stepped up and proved to be a solid No. 5 guy, and Wakefield as usual was decent in the fourth slot.
  4. hockeybeat

    hockeybeat Guest

    I think it also bears repeating that the Yanks don't need Joba to start. Their farm system is stocked with starters, so they could afford to move him to a relief role.

    Wick, good point on Pap. I believe I read a piece where Francona said Papelbon went to him during spring training and said he was better suited to being the closer than a starter.
  5. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    no, i didn't forget that. i'm saying the yanks will see that joba is more valuable to then in the pen much like the bosox learned the same with papelbon.
  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    I think not seeing Rivera in the eighth inning should work to the Yanks' favor. But you also have to think about what Petitte will have this season after the Mitchell Report.

    I have posted this before, but in the regular season, Joba is more valuable in the pen. In a playoff series, I think he is of more value as a starter.
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    The main reason they haven't won a World Series is their set-up guys? Are you kidding?

    Just look at this past season. The Yankees' "ace" got his ass kicked twice in the first round of the playoffs. Set-up guys can't save you if your starters get pounded.
  8. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    And that was equally true every year, starting with the Angels series. Their SPs haven't been nearly good enough, which playoff games were lost by middle relief? Every one that comes to mind was the SP or Rivera.
  9. Ruth-Gehrig

    Ruth-Gehrig Member

    The Yanks have never replaced Nelson, Stanton and Mendoza, and it's no coincidence that the team's demise followed Nelson's departure in 2000.
    From 1996-2000, if the Yanks led in the sixth inning, it was over.
    Nelson's nasty slider was unhittable, especially against right-handed hitters. Stanton was no picnic for those hitting from the other side of the plate. They had all the bases covered, and then Mendoza came in and threw a sinker that almost always led to a guaranteed double play.
    That trio was a huge part of their success, especially during their World Series run between 1998-2000.
    The starters had to go five innings, and they'd take over from there.
    Torre has had no confidence in his middle relief in more than a half-decade, which has led to major wear and tear on several of his starting rotations and the few competent members in the bullpen who did get the ball to Rivera.
    There's a long list of pretenders who have unsuccessully tried to replace Nelson, Stanton and Mendoza.
    The bottom line is that the Yanks need someone capable of getting the ball to Rivera, and Joba is the man.
    While Rivera has blown a few saves in clutch situations since 2001, the Yanks' middle relief have had its fair share of screwups during the same period.
    Rivera muffs up a sacrifice bunt, Womack hits the ball off his hands and drops it down the right-field line, and Gonzo fists one over the drawn-in Jeters' head.
    There's no denying that Wang has been awful the past few seasons, but I believe the Yanks' troubles began long before he put on the pinstripes, and here's the list of clowns who have tried to get the ball to Rivera in recent years:
    Karsay, Weaver, Hammond? Osuna, White, Benitez, Choate, Miceli, Prinz, Orosco, Heredia, Sturtze, Gordon, Quantrill, Proctor ... darn, I could go on and on. ...
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Oh, you have already gone on and on. I know deep in your Yankee fanboy heart you need to believe it is something so small as middle relief that has denied your beloved boys in pinstripes their divine right to the World Series in recent years.

    It isn't that simple. And no bullpen would not have been able to save them from that starting pitching in 2007.
  11. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Just blame A-Rod! :D
  12. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    First off, you still haven't named a single post-season game that was lost by the middle relief. Torre may have no faith in his bullpen, but he has even less in his starters - he maddeningly ALWAYS took them out too early. When in doubt, take out your 2nd or 3rd best pitcher to bring in #7 or 8. As for your list, you can do that for any team in baseball, and it will look worse. Gordon was great, except in the playoffs, and a number of others (Quantrill, Proctor, Sturtze) had their moments. You're right that they never replaced those guys, but that hasn't been what killed them. Think of the last few series that they've lost. It's been Johnson, Mussina, Wang, Vaszquez, Weaver etc. putting them too far behind, and the Yankees trying to slug their way back in. They need SPs, and they knew it, that's why they keep chasing & overpaying for Brown, Weaver, Vaszquez Johnson etc. They just haven't figured out how to get them yet.
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