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What happened? Joba out of Yanks rotation?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by thebiglead, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    For 2009, Joe Nathan, or some other free agent that the Yankees can outspend everybody for.
  2. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    But he's ESPN's "Next"!
  3. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    it's a dandy debate, whether joba should be in the pen or a starter. my opinion:

    joba setting up mo is a potential combo like mo-wetteland in '96. in this era of six-inning pitchers, that's a super feature to have. plus, it sets up joba to be mo's successor whenever.

    papelbon was always supposed to be a starter, too. then boston realized a super closer was more important to them than a possibly great starter. i know others value the great starter more.

    watching the yanks live through their super bullpen over the last 12 seasons -- and seeing their struggles when the set-up guys suck -- i'm in the keep-joba-in-the-pen camp. moreso than ever with his innings count destined to be babied so much.
  4. thebiglead

    thebiglead Member

    the joba-in-the-pen theory works great ... if you have the four horses in the rotation. Boston doesn't need Papelbon to start because they're loaded.

    IMO, Boston, Detroit and Cleveland have better staffs and if Joba is NEXT then the Yanks need to at least try him in the rotation. If he's a monster, great; if he's not, can't they move him to the pen?
  5. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Yankee rotation in 96 not that spiffy either


    Rivera threw 107 innings that year setting up Wettland.

    I would love to see Joba in Rivera role with a rotation of

  6. The babying thing starts down in the minor leagues and it makes me sick. Don
    they say the more you throw, the stronger your arm is? Has Dice-K had any major injuries in his career? Look how many pitches that guy has thrown in his life.
  7. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    Boom: The 96 rotation was a lot better than the 2007 rotation. Gooden and Cone may not have been at their peak - Cone was injured for a part of that year - but they were good enough. The 96 team was kind of a freaky thing - it just happened to come together. Nobody thought Jeter would be the starting shortstop, much less play as well as he did. The defense on the 96 team was also a lot better than last year's team. Petitte and Mussina are a lot closer to their expiration date than Cone and Gooden were.
  8. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    i'm not one of those rue-the-specialization-of-the-game guys (god knows it was a boost for me once upon a time), but I don't think I'll ever be convinced that a pitcher who throws 70 quality innings in a season can be more valuable than a guy who throws 210 quality innings for the same team.

    No matter what La Russa or any other manager says, the ninth inning is not more important than any other. Three outs are hard to get, no matter what the situation. Of course, entering a game cold just to get three outs is a difficult task -- and a lot of pitchers can't do it (Braden Looper, come on down!)

    But as Smoltz and Gagne showed earlier this decade, and Rivera early last year, it doesn't help if you have the game's best closer back there if you can never get to him.

    So, I don't think that Joba's odds of success are that much higher if they keep him in the bullpen and groom him as Mo's successor, even though he showed flashes of brilliance last season. It was still a 24-inning trial. If they can use him as a starter, I think they should try.
  9. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    But I do agree with the statement that the last three outs of a game are usually the hardest to get.
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Some guys just cannot handle closing games. They might even be lights out in a set-up role, but put them in for that 9th inning and they melt down. Other guys don't have a closer's stuff, but they end up doing the job because they can handle it mentally.

    This is how you have Rafael Betancourt setting up Joe Borowski in Cleveland. Betancourt is the better reliever, but he hasn't shown the ability to handle closing that Borowski has. The same goes for guys like Todd Jones and David Weathers, neither of whom is particularly good any more, but neither one folds under 9th-inning pressure.
  11. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    There is an interesting psychological dynamic to being a closer.

    That said, there is a reason that closers are closers -- they are not good enough, in some way, to be starters.

    Great as he is, Mariano Rivera would get lit up if people ever saw him for more than an inning at a time.

    A starter is more valuable than a closer.
  12. Mitch21

    Mitch21 Member

    See: Dusty Baker.
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