We lost the Battle of the Bulge?

Boom_70 · Nov 9, 2006

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom_70 said:

The Good Doctor said:

I'm paraphrasing Rudy Giuliani here --

I think that any president who fights a war for more than a year becomes more unpopular.

Imaging what polls would have shown about Lincoln after the losses and after he replaced all of those generals.

I was talking to a veteran yesterday who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and he told me to remind people that at that point people thought the war was going bad. And I agree, it was one of the worst losses in American military history. But we moved on from it and perservered.

Ladies and Gentlemen, 2008 Presidential nominee Rudolph Giuliani!
Click to expand...

I would love to see exact quote as opposed to a paraphrase but the overall analogy is a good one.

To understand his point I think you need a better understanding of WW II and specifically The battle of Ardennes.

The US loses mostly in first 3 days of battle were huge- 81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed.

19,000 US Servicemen killed - this did not play well at home. It was part of Hitler's strategy to turn the war back in his favor. He believed that that American citizens were losing their stomach for war and he hoped Battle of Bulge would change public opinion. He also felt he could cause a rift between American and British forces. ( See Patton and Montgomery)
Click to expand...

And Boom?
None of that happened. None of it was going to happen. Moreover, Allied air power was well on the way to complete domination of the Continent by then. This was a last roll of the dice, the only one that germany had left, and it was bound to fail.
Click to expand...

That roll of the dice put 19,000 American soldiers in the ground and as a result there was a lot of discontent at home. The families of those 19,000 killed probably don't share your sentiment about our domination at that point.

When it comes to partison politics I am never suprised at your intelectual dishonesty.

dooley_womack1 · Nov 9, 2006

I thought this was one of Poin's gunt threads.

And this is apples and oranges. I think people should be less angry about losing 19,000 in the cause of stopping a rampaging Hitler than losing 3,000 in the cause of routing a country that was already effectively neutralized. It's the difference between a necessary war and an idiotic war.

Ledbetter · Nov 9, 2006

dooley_womack1 said:

I thought this was one of Poin's gunt threads.

And this is apples and oranges. I think people should be less angry about losing 19,000 in the cause of stopping a rampaging Hitler than losing 3,000 in the cause of routing a country that was already effectively neutralized. It's the difference between a necessary war and an idiotic war.
Click to expand...

What he said.

Fenian_Bastard · Nov 9, 2006

Boom_70 said:

Birdscribe said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom_70 said:

The Good Doctor said:

I'm paraphrasing Rudy Giuliani here --

I think that any president who fights a war for more than a year becomes more unpopular.

Imaging what polls would have shown about Lincoln after the losses and after he replaced all of those generals.

I was talking to a veteran yesterday who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and he told me to remind people that at that point people thought the war was going bad. And I agree, it was one of the worst losses in American military history. But we moved on from it and perservered.

Ladies and Gentlemen, 2008 Presidential nominee Rudolph Giuliani!
Click to expand...

I would love to see exact quote as opposed to a paraphrase but the overall analogy is a good one.

To understand his point I think you need a better understanding of WW II and specifically The battle of Ardennes.

The US loses mostly in first 3 days of battle were huge- 81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed.

19,000 US Servicemen killed - this did not play well at home. It was part of Hitler's strategy to turn the war back in his favor. He believed that that American citizens were losing their stomach for war and he hoped Battle of Bulge would change public opinion. He also felt he could cause a rift between American and British forces. ( See Patton and Montgomery)
Click to expand...

And Boom?
None of that happened. None of it was going to happen. Moreover, Allied air power was well on the way to complete domination of the Continent by then. This was a last roll of the dice, the only one that germany had left, and it was bound to fail.
Click to expand...

And taking that one step further, one reason the Battle of the Bulge lasted as long as it did was because of the weather, weather that prevented the Americans from exerting their air superiority. The moment the clouds broke, in came the P-47s and that was that for Sepp Dietrich and the rest of the Master Race.
Click to expand...

I repeat there were 19,000 Americans killed in the Battle of the Bulge. You boys seems to want to forget this fact in you little story to try and discredit Rudy.
Click to expand...

Are you completely insane?
I might as well ask why you insist on denigrating the sacrifice of those 19,000 by framing the battle as a defeat. Rudy said something stupid and wrong, and it's not the first time he's done so -- "My friend Bernie Kerik" and "No, Donna, she's just a friend" being two of the most prominent examples -- and it won't be the last.

Fenian_Bastard · Nov 9, 2006

WHICH THE ALLIES WON!
(I'm out now, by the way.)

hondo · Nov 9, 2006

Boom_70 said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom_70 said:

The Good Doctor said:

I'm paraphrasing Rudy Giuliani here --

I think that any president who fights a war for more than a year becomes more unpopular.

Imaging what polls would have shown about Lincoln after the losses and after he replaced all of those generals.

I was talking to a veteran yesterday who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and he told me to remind people that at that point people thought the war was going bad. And I agree, it was one of the worst losses in American military history. But we moved on from it and perservered.

Ladies and Gentlemen, 2008 Presidential nominee Rudolph Giuliani!
Click to expand...

I would love to see exact quote as opposed to a paraphrase but the overall analogy is a good one.

To understand his point I think you need a better understanding of WW II and specifically The battle of Ardennes.

The US loses mostly in first 3 days of battle were huge- 81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed.

19,000 US Servicemen killed - this did not play well at home. It was part of Hitler's strategy to turn the war back in his favor. He believed that that American citizens were losing their stomach for war and he hoped Battle of Bulge would change public opinion. He also felt he could cause a rift between American and British forces. ( See Patton and Montgomery)
Click to expand...

And Boom?
None of that happened. None of it was going to happen. Moreover, Allied air power was well on the way to complete domination of the Continent by then. This was a last roll of the dice, the only one that germany had left, and it was bound to fail.
Click to expand...

That roll of the dice put 19,000 American soldiers in the ground and as a result there was a lot of discontent at home. The families of those 19,000 killed probably don't share your sentiment about our domination at that point.

When it comes to partison politics I am never suprised at your intelectual dishonesty.
Click to expand...

Think you could learn to spell? Three mispellings in a 14-word sentence. And you're ripping someone for "intelectual" problems?

Boom_70 · Nov 9, 2006

hondo said:

Boom_70 said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

Boom_70 said:

The Good Doctor said:

I'm paraphrasing Rudy Giuliani here --

I think that any president who fights a war for more than a year becomes more unpopular.

Imaging what polls would have shown about Lincoln after the losses and after he replaced all of those generals.

I was talking to a veteran yesterday who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and he told me to remind people that at that point people thought the war was going bad. And I agree, it was one of the worst losses in American military history. But we moved on from it and perservered.

Ladies and Gentlemen, 2008 Presidential nominee Rudolph Giuliani!
Click to expand...

I would love to see exact quote as opposed to a paraphrase but the overall analogy is a good one.

To understand his point I think you need a better understanding of WW II and specifically The battle of Ardennes.

The US loses mostly in first 3 days of battle were huge- 81,000 American casualties, including 23,554 captured and 19,000 killed.

19,000 US Servicemen killed - this did not play well at home. It was part of Hitler's strategy to turn the war back in his favor. He believed that that American citizens were losing their stomach for war and he hoped Battle of Bulge would change public opinion. He also felt he could cause a rift between American and British forces. ( See Patton and Montgomery)
Click to expand...

And Boom?
None of that happened. None of it was going to happen. Moreover, Allied air power was well on the way to complete domination of the Continent by then. This was a last roll of the dice, the only one that germany had left, and it was bound to fail.
Click to expand...

That roll of the dice put 19,000 American soldiers in the ground and as a result there was a lot of discontent at home. The families of those 19,000 killed probably don't share your sentiment about our domination at that point.

When it comes to partisan politics I am never surprised at your intellectual dishonesty.
Click to expand...

Think you could learn to spell? Three misspellings in a 14-word sentence. And you're ripping someone for "intellectual" problems?
Click to expand...

Hondo thanks for the "spell check" . May I forward you all my posts for proofreading before posting?

I just think this is your attempt to curry favor with our liberal friends and move to the center , in light of changed political landscape.

hockeybeat · Nov 9, 2006

Yes, and I blame fast food.

http://by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?&msg=A7A9618E-90C6-4E44-9E36-DC724AE8E633&start=0&len=2515306&curmbox=D3FBB787-2BD3-463E-B09C-E839447977F0&a=6dbdec7cfe4c6a9e57627c1022a5aa6d6b2618325a055888f8dc6618b75421b3&mimepart=10

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We lost the Battle of the Bulge?

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We lost the Battle of the Bulge?

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